WT Elders school: The WTS has progressed from just plain stupid to dangerously stupid

by sir82 111 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Doubting Bro

  Ethos has obviouslly never been an elder.

  Back to the topic at hand. Again we see a complete lack of understanding when it comes to depression. At least the WTS does realize that many of their elders have no "fellow feeling" and no ability to comfort. Of course, the advice given here is basically the same albeit delivered in a much better way.

  I think one of the big problems is the way individuals are chosen to be elders in the first place. 95% of the qualifications have to do with 1) how much FS time, 2) does he comment, and 3) is he and his family at meetings regularly. If you're a MS that gets in +10hrs a month, comments at nearly every meeting, handles assignments and has a family that is regular at the meeting, you will be made an elder. However, that doesn't mean you're a good "shepherd". It doesn't mean that you know how to comfort people or how to encourage people.

  And, the WTS gives you basically no training on how to comfort people. I have learned more about being a source of comfort since stepping aside as an elder than I ever learned during my time as an elder. An elder's number one job is enforcing the WTS rules. Worrying about peoples feelings is way down on the list. It's not that they're bad guys (some are, many are not), it's just they think that reading a scripture will do the trick. It's only after they have to deal with something personally that they truely understand.
• 

  Calebs Airplane

  Ethos…

  Let’s go to the Super Secret Elder’s Manual shall we?

  In page 59 (under offenses requiring judicial decisions) it states the following:

  Attempted suicide may be the result of deep despair or major depression. Deal carefully and compassionately with such a person. In most cases a judicial hearing is not required.

  Seriously??? In other words, a JW in deep despair can possibly get himself DF’d for attempting suicide? That’s all they have to say about suicide?

  Actually, there is one more thing about suicide in this manual… page 86 where it lays out a procedure to follow if, during a judicial committee hearing, someone threatens to kill himself. It basically instructs elders to patronize the accused JW (stall him) and then come back a couple of days later with some bullshit WT articles to get him back on track.

  these guys are totally clueless
• 

  Londo111

  When I went to the elders for spiritual help, I received just the opposite. I asked for a fish and was handed a serpent. I knew then that they were not practicing Christianity. After losing all faith, I seriously contemplated death for some time after this.

  During my reinstatement meetings, I reasoned with the elders from the scriptures. I was quite floored by both what I was speaking and their lack of response. They had nothing to say other than, “This is what we are instructed to do.” Basically, they follow the script from the Society as best they understand it. They displayed no wisdom from above and showed plainly that there was no Holy Spirit at work on them. Otherwise, they would have never DFed me, a repentant person seeking help, nor would they have ever reinstated me, who by then would be in their eyes an "apostate".

  JW elders are not called ‘leaders’, but in practice, that is what they are. The impact their decisions have on people’s lives show the amount of power their leadership has. In other denominations, only one Leader is recognized with that amount of authority, the Christ.

  In the Disciples of Christ, there is a paid pastor, but there are also elders who assist in looking after the flock. These elders do not act as policemen or prosecutors, but really endeavor to look after people. In my experience, it is JWs who have the lack of shepherding. (see Ezekiel 34)
• 

  Londo111

  Part 2: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/242494/1/WT-Elders-school-Avoid-black-and-white-thinking-now-look-at-this-zebra
• 

  problemaddict

  ETHOS - The "Flock" book is most certainly not public. The communication of letters from the branch is not public. The dissemination of special tasks is not public. The letters written from one congregation to another ABOUT YOU are not public. Even though the letter is about you, you cannot see them. The financials for the branch in any country where it is not legally required is not public. Local elders meetings are not public. Elder and servants schools are not public. MTS and Gilead schools are not public.

  All of these things and more are not just "not public", but considered secrets. I remember approchign the guys in my hall with "how was the elders school", and they tell me how wonderful it was but that they can't go into it but are convinced of the love the branch has for the friends.

  Come on bud. To suggest that there isn't a rather large issue with secrecy in our organization is not to be very intellectually honest.
• 

  atrapado

  Ethos the more you comment the more your lack of knowlege is reveal. Using only the WT publications available to everyone can you come up with a list of all the things you'll get DF for? Please show the WT publications where you get that list from.

  You can get the list from the elder's book, now was the list giving to you when you got baptized? Because I always thought that if it came from the Bible then it didn't matter if I agree with the FD or not, but was never told that if I don't agree with their Bible interpretation 100% I can be df. I am sure that if you gave such a list to all the people that are getting baptized a lot of them would not get baptized. Of course there will be individuals just like you that like to be there. I don't have a problem with a JW that knows all the flip-flops and all the information that is documented against JWs and wants to be a JW. But everyone should be given that opportunity to get all the facts from both sides. Then if they decide to stay JWs that is their choice.

  Isn't nice to argue about something and avoid all the questions you cannot answer or will make you look stupid if you answer?

  Here are 3 questions that Ethos will never answer while he still stuck there: How can you break the rules of the WT posting on apostate websites? How can you go against Bible's counsel not to even say hi to apostates? Can you still believe and agree 100% with the WT and do this things?
• 

  notjustyet

  Is this a DVD being played?

  And is it under lock and key? If not, who's thinking what I'm thinking?

  Njy
• 

  DATA-DOG

  Ethos,

  If this were true 100% " Sure, criticize JWs, you have that right as we are wrong about things, but this misleading, positive contrast with Christendom that is being regurgitated, is glossing over what is an even grander problem affecting BILLIONS of more people. A want of actual shepherding in the churches. " How would other organized religions also teaching falsehoods or not shepherding properly automatically make the WTBTS correct? Is being the one true channel for salvation simply a matter of being less wrong?
• 

  Terry

  When I use to work in the bookstore in the religio department I had many an occasion to stock the shelf with books for Pastors on how to counsel people.

  The depth of those books medically, psychologically and psychiatrically impressed me when I studied them.

  It struck me how seriously the gravity of such counsel was intended to be.

  I remember the opening paragraph of one of those books repeated the admonition from the Hippocratic Oath: "First of all: DO NO HARM."

  The piety and scripture reading was nowhere to be found precisely because issues of grief, abuse, addiction and criminality are BEYOND bromides and hand-holding.

  Why was Christendom taking it so seriously and Jehovah's Witnesses by stark contrast so CLUELESS?

  Answer: Christendom largely requires certification for ministerial practice and JW's bootstrap self-help approach produces incompetency.
• 

  Jeffro

  Ah... So Ethos is still around.

  Still waiting for your promised response on the 607 thread from 3 days ago.

  Thanks.