I do not know Recovery, but his subsequent absence or banning (whichever) prompted me to enjoin this forum. That's well written and very true Londo. I've ascertained from your writing that you find the mandated unity and singular thought among JW's perculiar, unscriptural, unorthodox, and of negative implication. While I can understand the emotional damage, isolation, and repression of dissension caused by disfellowshipping, I find the necessitation of unity and discouragement of what is classified as 'apostate' to be a recurring theme and exhortation in the early Christian epistles, as well as the early beginnings of the Christian church. No doubt, unity is a recurring scriptural mandate and a lack thereof can be greatly attributed to the varying denominations and sects in Christendom. Do you honestly believe the early church was modeled in a contrary manner?
Greetings! From an Existent JW!
by Ethos 103 Replies latest jw friends
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Ethos
Perhaps you should start a thread on this Londo....it is quite an interesting perspective.
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problemaddict
Using scripture as the touchstone, is it really possible to compare today's method of disfellowshipping with the extreme example mentioned in scripture? I am all for "disfellowshipping" a child molestor from the congregation for example, but would not feel the same about someone who openly disagreed with the GB via the written instruction of the branch.
The key we seem to forget could be this. The primitive Christians, had holy spirit and it operated upon them in a variety of miraculous ways. They could pray and pass it on and so forth. The men today have no such relationship to the spirit. We have no idea at all of their "approved" state before God, or who really appointed them. Therefore, to be able to give them the power to cut you off from everyone you have ever known (a practice questionable scripturally in and of itself), is not parallel to the first Century.
There is more, but I can wait for the thread. Of course you and I already agree that some "rules" we can bend for the sake of what we feel is right. otherwise, we would not be here having a discussion of course.
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Londo111
Ethos: I created the topic above. I really need to get back to work, so I might not have an opportunity to respond at length until tommorow.
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Marvin Shilmer
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“…I find the necessitation of unity and discouragement of what is classified as 'apostate' to be a recurring theme and exhortation in the early Christian epistles…”
For Christians, unity is an outcome; not a goal.
Otherwise, a primary feature of Christians is division arising from speaking that which is true. Hence division caused by speaking that which is true is a righteous form of division and not the unrighteous division Christians are warned against.
Watchtower doctrine and Watchtower idolaters prefer to group all division into one lump as though all cause for division is wrong. If that were true then Jesus would stand condemned given that he caused division amongst his own followers, and taught those remaining to do the same.
Speaking the truth should never, ever be viewed as somehow sinful, even it if runs contrary to current Watchtower teaching. But that’s not what Watchtower does. Right?
Watchtower’s top leadership does not care one bit about the average one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Watchtower’s top leadership is running a business in the field of religion. Watchtower is a religion business.
Marvin Shilmer
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straightshooter
Welcome to this forum and look forward to your future input.
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Londo111
Ethos,
Here is another topic...the main topic that woke me up to TTATT: 607. We already had lots of circular arguments with Recovery and both sides ended up restating the same things over and over. But you are welcome to join in.
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RayPublisher
Ethos welcome to JWnet you're quite intelligent we can all tell, and just allow me to elucidate by saying:
I
LOVE
THE
WAY
YOU
TALK
This thread is hypnotic- I love it!
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Band on the Run
JWs here do present great entertainment value. The brainwashing is so apparent. I cringe that I never understood until decades i nthe world. Frankly, I find JEW theology absured. It runs counter to great tradition and history. On the other hand, viewed by a non Christian, my present church has wacko beliefs. Paul's letters and the canonical gospels present a wacky picture. As Paul wrote in one his most famous passages, we are fools for Christ. For Christ is folly.
My hatred of the Witnesses has to do wth overreaching. Ordinary Witnesses trigger my pity. Bethel triggers rage. My family has been active since the very start with Russell. My father was a factory worker and body guard at Bethel when it was small. The amount of control by the WT is mind boggling. Thanks to resisting the Witnesses as a teenager, I attended college and law school on merit scholarships. Education opened my eyes. For ther first time, I was able to do critical thinking research. I had more access to databases than the WT writing department. The Wt repeatedly lies and intentionally misconstrues. If it were accidental, I would chalk it up to the lack of education. The Wt attracts the uneducated b/c the educated know how to research and can see the blatant lies. Sexuality between a married couple is no one's business. Study of the gopsels and early Church convinced me entirely that the WT is a knowng liar.
God (not YHWH) but God gave us our brains to use. He wants all of our talents. Servile obedience is not respected. I would not worship a God who demanded that I never think, while He gives me the ability to think.
In fairness, exposure to any religion's elite probably breeds contempt. Irish Catholics were so devout because they were thousands of miles from Rome. Italian Catholics took everything with a grain of salt b/c they saw corruption up close. B/c of the Bethelites in my family, I heard many scandals. Items that were once closely held but now anyone can know b/c of the Internet.
Let me conclude by the most obvious point. If you are a Jehovah's Witness, you should not be here. The rules are clear. No one here, unless they are deceitful, can post at JW.org. Yet JWN accepts you. You are an "apostate" just by being present. True, surfing the Internet is much easier than knocking on doors to no avail.
Please don't abuse our hospitality. JWs extend no hospitalilty to us. We will not shun you or convinced your dearest family and friends to abandon you. JWN members live by a much higher standard than JWs. Don't pander to me. There is nothing you can write that will change any thoughts. You are indulging yourself by your presence. A true JW would belief Jehovah (not god's name at any time) would strike them down with lightning. We have all heard the lies from the very top and rejected them. It seems arrogant of you to believe you can break through where what you idiots believe is Jehovah's organization could not. Aren't your fearful that our satanic majesty will rub off on you? Demon fear I recall very vividly.
Every time you post, just remember that the reverse is not true. We do not fear you. the GB fears us very much. Jehovah's Witnesses are witnesses to a nongod. A Middle Ages invention.
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problemaddict
^^^Good Grief man. Did anything in this mans post give you any cause for that rant? Why not deal with people as they come and respond to what they actually say and do, not what you expect them to. Does that sound familiar? You don't have to respond to anyone you don't want to.
In addition, I love that a JW comes on here, and is reminded they should not be here. Hilarious! Way to reach out. Way to encourage free thinking, and engender communication and discussions that could win people to your viewpoint.
This isn't a sandbox, its a discussion board. The mere suggestion that a blanket statement like "JWN members live by a much higher standard than JW's", is any different than the statements that you yourself resent, is not very itellectually honest.
You have some great posts BOTR. A very interesting way of looking at things. Certainly I have read more than one of them. This one is a little beneath your normal level. Too much caffeine today man?
Come on home slice.