by Yadirf 49 Replies latest jw friends
Yadirf,
You start these threads, knowing your wrong, just so you can reply, reply, reply. Right? Being Jedi not good enough for you?
Where does it say in the Bible not to fly a flag. If every American were a JW, we would be in serious trouble. Instead you hide behind what others have done for you. PATHETIC!!!
Adonai438 has an excellent reply. I have said in the past to honor the flag, not worship it.
It's not so bad to finish second, because the other guy finished second to last. -A.M.
Yadirf-
You can argue with me all you want-- I quoted scripture and said consider it. I have yet to see any scriptural support from you on your stance once so ever and I have personally read the Bible in it's entirity several times and have some knowledge of the original languages and use and own the original language texts. I do not proport, as the WT does, to be infallible but I do know from where I speak and will only state something that is clearly in scripture.
You can preach a perfect moral about not having allegiance to anything but Jehovah all you want but no where in the Bible does it say that being a part of, respecting, honoring, or whatever, a government would go against that. JWs get to enjoy the religious freedom, free markets, and every day general peace to live in but they don't support the people--servants of God, the bible itself calls them--that run it and provide it. I am not under the dillusion that government is perfect, void of coruption, or anything like that but scripture says to support and honor it.
The Bible says to be in the world but not of the world. NOT to do everything possible to not be in the world at all which is what WT doctrine trys to do as much as humanly possible.
I have barely had the 'pleasure' of exchange with you and you already stoop to name calling. Interesting.
The world is not my home nor is it where my allegiance lies, I am Yahweh Almighty's child through the precious blood of Jesus, and that I know. I am not threatened and my faith is not threatened by merely being near others who are sinful or might disagree with me. Truth has nothing to fear.
Jesus ate with sinners, Jesus said to go into ALL the world, Jesus commended the centurion for his faith and did not tell him to leave his duties in any way. Turn you nose up if you want but its not at me, its at the true Yahweh's expense. SAD, indeed. I'll be praying for you.
You take snippets of the Romans 13 passage and claim dissagreement but it not me you disagree with since you are quoting the scriptures.
Yadirf
Ive completely misinterpreted you dear boy.
I thought I was discussing with a Dub.
But you cannot be.
As I've already noted, the 2-horned beast of Revelation 13 isn't here yet. Although the 2 nations that will comprise it is no doubt already on the scene they haven't been assigned
Any witness knows this role is assigned to the anglo america world power, the role of the false prophet/ lamblike beast.
You are no dub. You are a radical apostate.
Yardirf says:
Roman's chapter 13 doesn't even come close to saying that the superior authorities were "established" by God. It says "there is no authority except by God", which simply means that the world's governments (man's rule) exist by his permission only.KJV - the powers that be are ordained by God
NIV - the authorities that exist have been "established" by God
JB - the cinil authorities were appointed by God
RSV - and those that exist have been instituted by God
Phillips - the existing authority is appointed under God
NWT - the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God
Neither do they wave their country's flag, which would be tantamount to supporting man's rule if they did.Rom. 13:4 it [the governments] is God's minister to you for your good..... an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad. - NWT
vs. 5 - There is therefore compelling reason for you people to be in subjection - nwt
vs.6 - for they are God's public servants
Adonai438,
You gave an excellent reply. One that millions of Christians would easily give because of their bible based training. When, people become followers of men rather than what God instructs them to clearly do, they will always find a way to be disobedient..... no how many times God or anyone else tells them otherwise.
I also apprreciated your post.
UADNA-TX
Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America
Hi Joelbear,
Got to take issue with you one this one:
To me it seems that they have to have something to which to be devoted to. Being a witness included having a deep devotion to "something".I see very little patriotism among those who leave the WBTS. Those that do appear to do it for one of two reasons. Either out of a sense of responsibility to God, or out of appreciation for the democratic process that can only function properly if citizens participate. Both of which we were robbed of.Patriotism is a simple fit since it is popular and has all the trappings of ritual. Objects of worship (flags, political icons, etc.), rituals of worship (pledge of allegiance, saluting, etc.) rituals of sacrifice (joining the army, standing in line to vote).
Contrary to your claim of popularity, a great many Americans have forgotten what the countries were like that our immigrant ancestors came from and are apathetic to original American values. I have not forgotten.
I shudder to think what the world would be like without a strong America. I think that is something each American should deeply consider.
UADNA-TX
Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America
Hi Adonai438
I have been following this thread, I don't have much time this a.m. but I did want to ask you if you would touch on this again. Am I reading you right by this statement interpreting this to mean Our government are servents of God? Because God allows political governments to exist?
That would have to mean that ALL political governments throughout the earth are servents of God.
If thats the case then why are we killing each other? We are not suppose to wage war against our brothers.
quote:
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You can preach a perfect moral about not having allegiance to anything but Jehovah all you want but no where in the Bible does it say that being a part of, respecting, honoring, or whatever, a government would go against that. JWs get to enjoy the religious freedom, free markets, and every day general peace to live in but they don't support the people--servants of God, the bible itself calls them--that run it and provide it.
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YADRIF
to answer your question, WHY?
Aside from the occasional pot shots, that are even not bad as long as they don't get ugly, It would take me 5 years of Sunday talks to gather a fraction of the information I can get from reading one of these threads. When there are valid points from both sides of the fence.
I am kind of in the middle of this mostly reading and not contributing so I probably have a very different perspective of the whole thing then either you or Ad438 may have.
I don't find these conflicts boring at all. That's why I am here. I didn't join this forum to watch people manipulate and shred each other to bits as we've seen in the past and I don't want to get caught up in that stuff. Some like it, that's OK, but I guess IM dull because I get off on learning.
Others must also because these threads seem to have a life of there own even if some of the responses are, "YAAWNNN"....Dubla
now as adonai438 would sometimes say, GOTTA RUN.
plmkrzy
edtittteeedd becuz I can't spell
Perry
Let me ask you something, Perry. Are you so ill informed as to think that simply because a person has been schooled in the languages and attempts to translate the Scriptures that such person is bound to get it translated correctly purely by right of his profession, acquired by going to school?Roman's chapter 13 doesn't even come close to saying that the superior authorities were "established" by God. It says "there is no authority except by God", which simply means that the world's governments (man's rule) exist by his permission only. – Yadirf.KJV - the powers that be are ordained by GodNIV - the authorities that exist have been "established" by God
JB - the cinil authorities were appointed by God
RSV - and those that exist have been instituted by God
Phillips - the existing authority is appointed under God
NWT - the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God – Perry.
I’ll guarantee you that there’s not a single translation that you’ve quoted above, save the NWT (and even it’s slightly hard to understand), that has done justice to that particular scripture.
Any translator that hasn’t got the spirit of the Bible’s message is handicapped to start with, and you should know that. I’ve observed it a thousand times if I’ve seen it once, even with regards to the NWT. I’ve got loads of various translations occupying my bookshelf, and I didn’t start scrutinizing them just yesterday.
Apparently you don’t have the slightest understanding of what that scripture means either.Neither do they wave their country's flag, which would be tantamount to supporting man's rule if they did. – Yadirf.Rom. 13:4 it [the governments] is God's minister to you for your good..... an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad. - NWTvs. 5 - There is therefore compelling reason for you people to be in subjection - nwt
vs.6 - for they are God's public servants – Perry.
I feel sorry for you, Perry. But I don’t think that you have an open mind to learn. Don’t you want to live forever in God’s universe? Then for crying out loud, get on the road to life! Why wait until after the resurrection to get started, when by that time you could be helping the newly resurrected instead?
Yadirf
Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
plmkrzy
I am kind of in the middle of this mostly reading and not contributing so I probably have a very different perspective of the whole thing then either you or Ad438 may have.You are MALE aren't you? Then you shouldn't be afraid to spit it out, whatever your view is.
Don't be shy, please.
Yadirf
Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
Adonai438
I have barely had the 'pleasure' of exchange with you and you already stoop to name calling. Interesting.Have I called you a name? No I haven't! Please point it out to me where I supposedly called you any name at all.
After some discussion with you, and after you implied that 'JWs hold a hatred for government', I said to you:
JWs DO NOT hold a hatred for government! They simply do not support or advocate man’s rule. You know what, Adonai438? Your head is as hard as an anvil, surely!That's simply my observation about you, not my calling you a name. It's a fact that things are not sinking in like they should for you. What do you want PRAISE, when you are exhibiting stubborness? You ought to take a look at what I've been called if you want to know what name-calling is truly all about. This forum, you will soon find, is not a place to come for one who is quick to take offense.
Yadirf
Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.
Let me ask you something, Perry. Are you so ill informed as to think that simply because a person has been schooled in the languages and attempts to translate the Scriptures that such person is bound to get it translated correctly purely by right of his profession, acquired by going to school?
The reasoning here is so strange that it's hard to believe that you actually present it for scrutiny. It appears thats scholarship is not a tool you believe in determining truth. What would you have people use, gross incompetence or outright subjective opinion?
You make a statement totally out of harmony with the scriptures, I present biblical passages that DIRECTLY contridict your assertion, and all you can do is say that educated scholars are idiots? Really Yardirf.... I feel for you man.
I feel sorry for you, Perry. But I don’t think that you have an open mind to learn. Don’t you want to live forever in God’s universe? Then for crying out loud, get on the road to life! Why wait until after the resurrection to get started, when by that time you could be helping the newly resurrected instead?Awwww, let's help poor Perry get on the road to life. As if, God has taken the job of judging from Christ and given it to Yardirf. Let me ask you a question, what will Christ do to you when he asks you why you continually usurp his headship and judge Christians to death like you intimated in your above comment? You already know the answer but obviously haven't given it much thought. You should.
Justice will require that he judge you by the same standard. That is why I fear for you and all JW's.
UADNA-TX
Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America
