What is God's Kingdom?

by Gods_Kingdom 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe
    God's holy spirit also helps humble ones to understand what the Bible means if you pray for it and keep praying for it. The Bible says to study to show oneself approved....rightly dividing the words of truth.

    Welcome Gods_Kingdom, this is just a very old argument to stop people questioning their teachings I'm afraid. The reasoning goes if this teaching doesn't make sense to you you are not humble enough.

    So when some of the intelligent and well-read people here questioned the organisation's teachings they were not humble enough, hence they were disfellowshipped for apostasy.

    Here is a scripture for you,

    Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas out to Beroea, and these, following their arrival, went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest readiness of mind, carefully examine the scriptures daily as to whether these things were so. Acts17: 10, 11 (NWT 1963)

    Most of the people on this forum have read the Bible and studied it for many years, I certainly have. However when what we read in the Bible didn't fit with what the GB said we questioned it as the Beroeans questioned Paul and Silas. Then they tossed us out of the religion. Strange isn't it?

  • Gods_Kingdom
    Gods_Kingdom

    Below is a brief explanation of the difference between those going to heaven and those who will remain on the earth after Armageddon. There are many scriptures on these two subjects and takes time to understand the difference. This is in response to a previous comment on this forum thread.

    (John 6:48-58) 48 “I am the bread of life. 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” 52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when your forefathers ate and yet died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

    This was an intimate invitation to a small group of Jews probably at a Synagog to enter into a covenant relationship with Jesus to be co-rulers with him in heaven. The symbolism used here is very similar to the eating of the bread and wine that Jesus instituted during the passover season a short time later. Entering this new covenant with Jesus would assure them of everlasting life upon death and would go straight to heaven. And what will they be doing in heaven? Strolling on roads of gold and playing a harp? No, but to RULE AS KINGS AND PRIESTS for the 1,000 years (Revelation chapter 20). The end of verse 4 of chapter 20 says "....they came to life and ruled as Kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. The rest of the dead (those on the earth) did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) They came to everlasting life immediately upon being resurrected and the second death has no authority over them. Revelation 5:10 says clearly "and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God and they are to rule as Kings over the earth." THAT is the purpose for going to heaven and the only purpose. People were created to live on the earth, not to go to heaven. Had Adam and Eve not sinned they would have lived on earth FOREVER. Just because they sinned didn't change God's plan. He still plans to have faithful men and women to live forever on earth, but first the issue of Sovereignty and sin must be dealt with in God's way. Part of that plan to deal with sin is to allow a relatively small number of people to go to heaven to rule with Jesus for the purpose of FULLY dealing with sin via the Ransom sacrifice of Jesus.

    In contrast are the vast majority of those who will either survive the great tribulation and Armageddon or be resurrected to the 1,000 year Kingdom on earth referred to as the great crowd at Revelation 7:9 who survived the great tribulation and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. They do not come to life (everlasting life) until the end of the 1,000 year reign. Notice what happens at Revelation 20:7 and 8? Basically says Satan will be released from the prison he was in for the past almost 1,000 years and now is going to try to mislead all who will follow him in one last rebellion against God. Satan, his demons and all who follow them will be destroyed. Those who remain faithful and who have exercised faith in Jesus and his shed blood will live on forever after that. After that final test the "second death" will have no authority over them ever again. Remember, Adam and Eve were perfect in the garden of Eden and had no need of Jesus redemptive provisions and yet they disobeyed God and lost their perfection and lost their everlasting life. Adam lived "only" 930 years and died with no hope of a resurrection due to his willful disobedience. 930 years is a short time compared to everlasting life. By the end of the future 1,000 years all on earth will have also reached perfection in God's eyes by virtue of Jesus shed blood and even so many will choose to follow Satan just as Adam and Eve also chose to follow Satan so long ago in the garden.

    Going forward I may or may not respond to those who choose to criticize. I will however respond to all who genuinely want to have a Bible discussion and compare scriptures and to let the scriptures together with an explanation. Notice what the apostle Paul had to say about debates.

    (2 Timothy 2:23-26) 23 Further, reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing that they produce fights. 24 For a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, showing restraint when wronged, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed. Perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him to do his will.

    To learn more on many Bible topics feel free to go to jw.org for more Bible based teachings or request a free home Bible Study.

  • kairos
    kairos

    Why not explain the overlapping generation?
    Tell us how watching cartoons at the meetings is evidence of Jehovah's Holy Spirit.

  • Gods_Kingdom
    Gods_Kingdom
    Again I refer to Korah. He chose to think more of himself and his own ideas and opposed Moses leadership. Well, Korah and his followers all died at Jehovah's hand. Either the Governing Body today is directed by Holy Spirit or they are not. They are not perfect and to paraphrase "the light is getting brighter and brighter as the day draws nearer." If you don't think the Governing Body is directed by Holy Spirit then leave if there is something else better out there for you. Many left Jesus and many left Moses thinking they were more enlightened. Disfellowshiping is scriptural for those who are stubborn and unrepentant. Those who are appointed as shepherds have the authority to teach, correct and if necessary to disfellowship to keep the congregation clean. I was disfellowshiped a number of years ago and I came back because there was nothing else even close to go to. I was not raised as on of Jehovah's Witnesses. I was raised Catholic and was Pentecostal for 6 years and went to a Baptist church for several months and studied other religions. When Jesus asked his disciples if they were also going to leave him they realized they didn't understand why Jesus did what he did or what he said but they did know that there was no were else to go and that Jesus had the words of everlasting life. The Boreans were new converts that studied daily to become baptized dedicated to God believers. After baptism they were responsible to be submissive to those taking the lead over them and to obey. That is scriptural. A humble person would realize they were wrong and would trust in Jehovah to work out any problems that may or may not be there. It is Jesus congregation and he is more than capable to shepherd his congregation and work out in time any problems or even problem people that need to be dealt with.
  • Gods_Kingdom
    Gods_Kingdom

    Why not explain the overlapping generation? I can only discuss one thing at a time and I have been typing a lot this day. I am out of time today as it is late where I live. Perhaps I will discuss it tomorrow.


    Tell us how watching cartoons at the meetings is evidence of Jehovah's Holy Spirit. I have been going to the meetings for over 25 years and I have never seen a cartoon at a meeting. On jw.org there are cartoons for the kids to learn valuable Bible lessons.

    Satan is working overtime to steal the hearts of kids with spiritistic and violent cartoons on TV and it seems to be working real well for Satan.

  • Gods_Kingdom
    Gods_Kingdom

    Wheres the Map?!..

    The Bible is the map. The Kingdom is God's heavenly Kingdom government that will rule over the earth after Armageddon. How do you get there? Pray for Holy Spirit to guide you, Read your Bible and Study diligently all scriptures referring to the Kingdom. If you don't know how, then ask the next Jehovah's Witness that comes to your door to study the Bible with you or go to jw.org and search for articles to explain it clearly. Also, go to Christian meetings that teaches about God's Kingdom. Unless you go to a Kingdom Hall you will have a hard time learning the very many scriptures that talks about it. I went to 3 different major religions for years and never learned clearly what it was. Then preach and share what you have learned with others. Matthew 24:14. And last but not least accept by faith the Ransom sacrifice of Jesus death and shed blood and that works cannot save you. Works (fruitage) only proves you have living true faith. Without faith you cannot please God. Hebrews 11:6.

    Follow the above directional map and you will have no problem finding God's Kingdom and enjoying it's many benefits Isaiah 65:17-25.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    God's Kingdom - you said, "When Jesus asked his disciples if they were also going to leave him they realized they didn't understand why Jesus did what he did or what he said but they did know that there was no where else to go.."

    By saying this, you are misrepresenting the apostle Peter's words the exact same way as my other fellow Witnesses.

    Peter didn't say there was "nowhere" else to go, he said, "Lord, whom shall we go away to".

    He was stating that Christ was his choice, not some religion run by men, such as the one he'd just left to follow Christ.

    You point out the lack of scriptures by people questioning you:

    as a Witness myself, can you explain - only using the scriptures - how the Org arrives at the year of 1919 as the time when God/Jesus allegedly selected J.F. Rutherford & Co. as being the best of a bad bunch when they examined religions claiming to follow Christ?

    I sincerely look forward to seeing the Bible answers to this.

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe
    Well you did not deign to reply to me after I took the time to get my NWT off the shelf as you were asking for a scriptural reason for our views. You said you won't reply to those who start foolish and ignorant debates, which is very insulting and indicates that scripture I used hit home. I don't know what you hope to achieve here with people who know a huge amount about the Bible and JW teachings unless it is just to count your time.
  • hopeofglory
    hopeofglory
    The Kingdom of God is in you and around you it cannot be seen nor is it made with bricks and mortar
    Who You Are In Christ You Are A New Creation ”Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” – 2 Corinthians 5:17 You Are Justified “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” – Romans 5:1 You Are Complete In Christ “And you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.” – Colossians 2:10 You Have Access To God Through The Holy Spirit “For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.” – Ephesians 2:18 You Are A Saint “Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus.” – Ephesians 1:1 You Are God’s Workmanship “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” – Ephesians 2:10 You Are Hidden With Christ In God “For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.” – Colossians 3:3 You Are Free Forever From Condemnation “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.” – Romans 8:1-2 You Are United With The Lord “But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.” – 1 Corinthians 6:17 You Are A Minister Of Reconciliation For God “Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.” – 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 You Are Assured That All Things Work Together For Your Good “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.” – Romans 8:28 You Are Bought With A Price And Belong To God “Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.” – 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 You Are God’s Temple “Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” – 1 Corinthians 3:16 You Can Do All Things Through Christ Who Strengthens You “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” – Philippians 4:13 You Are Established, Anointed And Sealed By God Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.” - 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 You Are Seated With Christ In The Heavenly Places “And raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.” – Ephesians 2:6 You Are A Member Of Christ’s Body “Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.” – 1 Corinthians 12:27 You Have Been Adopted As God’s Child “Having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.” – Ephesians 1:5 You Are God’s Fellow Worker “For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.” – 1 Corinthians 3:9 You Are A Branch Of The True Vine “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.” – John 15:1,5 You Have Been Chosen And Appointed To Bear Fruit “You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.” – John 15:16 You Are The Salt And Light Of The Earth “You are the salt of the earth… You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.” – Matthew 5:13-14 You Are A Personal Witness Of Christ’s “But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” – Acts 1:8 You Are A Citizen Of Heaven “For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.” – Philippians 3:20 You Have Not Been Given A Spirit Of Fear, But Of Power, Love And A Sound Mind “For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.” – 2 Timothy 1:7 You Have Been Redeemed And Forgiven “In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.” - Colossians 1:14 You Are Free From Any Charge Against You “Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.” – Romans 8:33-34 You Cannot Be Separated From The Love Of God “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” – Romans 8:38-39 You May Approach God With Freedom And Confidence “Christ Jesus, our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.” – Ephesians 3:11-12 You May Find Grace And Mercy In Time Of Need “Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.” – Hebrews 4:16 You Are Confident That The Good Work God Has Begun In You Will Be Perfected “Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.” – Philippians 1:6 You Are Christ’s Friend “No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you riends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.” – John 15:15
  • cofty
    cofty

    Gods_Kingdom - Regarding your "all chiefs and no Indians" remark, I would appreciate your comments on the following extract from an article I wrote some years ago.


    The Society teach that not everyone who puts faith in Jesus is declared righteous to the same extent. It describes the majority of believers as having only, “a degree of righteousness” credited to them, as having a “relatively righteous standing” before God, and of being counted as righteous “compared to mankind in general.” (See The Watchtower, 1 December 1985, p.17).

    Bible writers know of no such half-hearted generosity on God’s part. Either we are forgiven or we are not. Either we are declared righteous in God’s eyes or we are not. Being righteous compared to mankind in general will not reconcile us to God. That would leave us like the man on the roof mentioned earlier, closer to the stars than his neighbours, but still light years removed from his goal. Indeed the very notion of having a “relatively righteous standing” before God is nonsensical. It is comparable to describing a woman as being relatively pregnant. If we have “a degree of righteousness” credited to us then we are still marred by a degree of sin, which God must condemn and punish, and therefore we remain alienated from him.

    Jesus did not just bear some of our sins: He bore all of them. The “great crowd” of Revelation 7 are said to have,“washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb,” not relatively clean compared to mankind in general. The “sheep” of Jesus’ parable at Matt. 25:31-46 are referred to as the “righteous ones” who depart “into everlasting life”, not as the relatively righteous who qualify for a second chance.

    The Bible uses the analogy of adoption to illustrate the relationship with God that Jesus’ death makes possible. It is one of the first things that John tells us in his gospel. “As many as did receive him, to them he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith (“believing”; Interlinear) in his name, and they were born, not from blood, or from a fleshly will or from man’s will, but from God.” (Jhn.1:12,13)

    When God accepts us and declares us righteous, He does so in full knowledge of all our weaknesses and limitations. Unlike human friendship God’s love is never fickle or capricious, it is loyal and unchanging. Although sadly it is not always so, the best human illustration of this kind of unconditional acceptance is the relationship between a parent and child. A good parent will never disown their offspring. Their love, forgiveness, comfort and protection is not dependant on how well the child performs, it is inherent in the nature of the relationship. Even when a child goes seriously astray like the prodigal son of Jesus’ parable, the good father remains ready to joyfully welcome him home and restore him without reservation.

    This is the way that God loves and accepts those who put faith in his Son. Without Jesus we are, at best like slaves, always trying desperately to be good enough to merit the master’s approval. Always uncertain, even on a good day, if tomorrow’s mistake will result in our rejection. But a son, on the other hand, is assured of his father’s love. He works because he in turn loves his father, and wants to please him. It is this difference that Paul describes at Romans 8:15, “You did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons by which spirit we cry out Abba, Father.”

    There are, by the Bible’s reckoning, only two sorts of people. Everybody begins as the same sort; children of Adam or, “in Adam”. In this state they are, under “condemnation” (Rom.5:18), “alienated” from, and “enemies” of God (Col.1:21), “children of wrath” (Eph. 2:3), under the “authority of darkness” (Col.1:13), walking in “accord with the flesh” (Rom.8:4), “slaves of sin” (Rom.6:17), and “dead in their trespasses” (Eph.2:1&5).

    This is not the Bible’s description of an especially depraved person but of the normal human condition from God’s perspective. It matters not at all that we may not feel guilty or under condemnation, God’s inspired word says emphatically that we are.

    The other sort of person is, “in Christ”. These are, “declared righteous” (Rom.5:1), “reconciled to God” (Rom.5:10), “born of God” (1 Jhn.5:1) or “born again” (Jhn.3:3), “beloved children” of God (Eph.5:1), “transferred into the kingdom of the Son of God’s love” (Col.1:13), indwelled by “God’s Spirit” (Rom.8:9), part of a “new creation” (2 Cor.5:17), and “alive together with the Christ” (Eph.2:5).

    The difference between these two groups is not that the latter are more worthy, or that they try harder to be good, nor that they naturally have more interest in spiritual matters or an ability to read and understand the Bible. It is simply that they have put faith in God’s provision for their salvation. They have humbly abandoned their attempts to earn His favour and trusted in Jesus as their Saviour. For someone to feel that these blessings could not apply to them because they are not worthy is for that person to miss the point of the good news. Nobody is good enough, that is exactly the point at which the gospel begins.

    We cannot pick and choose which of the above descriptions of those who belong to God apply to us, and which ones do not. We cannot for example be reconciled to God, but not be a “new creation”. (see 2 Cor.5:16-19) We cannot be “beloved children” of God, but not be “born of God”. We cannot draw a line between calling God “Father”, and calling him, “Abba, Father”. If we have not been adopted then we are not His children, He is not our Father, and we have no right to call Him such at all. If we are His children then we are also joint heirs with Christ. If we are “in harmony with the Spirit” then “God’s Spirit truly dwells” in us, but if we do not have the Holy Spirit then we do “not belong to” Christ. (See Rom.8:9-17) Only if we are “led by the Spirit” can we produce the “fruitage of the Spirit”. But again, if we are, then we can cry out “Abba Father” and we are adopted as sons of God and joint heirs with Christ. (See Gal.4:6,7;5:16-24)

    The teaching that God’s promise of adoption as sons applies only to a small minority of those who put faith in Jesus is an especially pernicious doctrine. Being “anointed” or “born again”, is not simply a technical label that distinguishes a person as having a heavenly calling as opposed to an earthly one. It is a description of the life that can be enjoyed by all who have been forgiven and reconciled with God. It has to do, not with where God wants us to spend eternity, but whether or not we are reconciled to him now, and therefore have any eternity to look forward to at all.

    It is clear from his first letter that John did not view being born again as something that applied only to a few Christians. He says that, “Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God.” (1 Jhn.5:1) And later in the same letter he wrote, “See what sort of love the Father has given us that we should be called children of God, and such we are.” (1 Jhn.3:1)

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