Who Really is The Faithful and Discreet Slave?

by Recovery 207 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sabastious
    Due to the diverse views on this site ( no offense anyone ), you may want to contact some people from 21st-century christians.org ( Brother Ed ), or Jwstruggle, or anointedjw.org wich deals almost exclusively with the sonship of Christ's followers. Also, if I have not said so before, anyone who is truly anointed and a follower of Christ would natural be a faithful and discreet slave of Christ. So it would be scripturally correct to say that FAITHFUL anointed Christians are individual faithful and discreet slaves. To be disqualified you simply have to stop meeting the criteria, whether or not it is intentional and comes from a wicked heart, only God and Christ can say.

    Exactly. Jesus said "blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth." The reward for the faithful slaves, or the meek, will be the earth. But I would go as far as to say that the faithful slaves are not just Christians, but anyone who is providing effective nourishment to the children of God on this planet in any form. Take this debate between Christopher Hitchens and Rabbi Shmuley for example:



    Hitchens clearly presents his information in a very eloquent and dignified manner. His content is harsh, but he does a great job in declaring what he believes to be true. The Rabbi's first remark after Hitchens presentation is that it is "trash." The Rabbi loses the debate RIGHT THERE because he's starting out with abusive speech. This is a perfect example of the dichotomy that Jesus was refering to. There will be people who calmly feed the people and the ones who brazenly beat their fellow man.


  • sir82
    sir82 asked: Please explain why this particular parablemust be a prophecy that applies to the 20th / 21st century?

    The Bible shows us this had a literal fulfillment in the first century.

    The word "fulfillment" indicates that you think it is a "prophecy". Not every utterance made by Jesus was a prophecy.

    I will repeat the question: What is it, exactly, that makes you so sure it must be a prophecy, regardless of whether you think the "fulfillment" of that "prophecy was in the 1st or 21st century?

    Since the FDS would have to be providing spiritual food when the Master returned then this must be fulfilled in our present day.

    Again - why are these words a prophecy? Why must anything "be fulfilled" back then or right now?

    We know that Jesus parousia started in 1914

    We do? Please provide evidence for this assertion. "We" don't know that.

    so it would be necessary for it to be happening right now in the 20th/21st century.

    Sigh. "would have to be"...."must be"....."Would be necessary".....you keep repeating those phrases without producing one iota of evidence.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Sab said:

    A parable can be both a prophecy and a parable if uttered by a prophet and the contents come true. I do think that the FDS parable was pointing to a time in the distant future because of Matthew 24:14 which is in the same chapter. If Jesus is speaking about preaching his message to the entire world he is talking about the entirety of what his followers accomplish in the future. So, when he talks about the faithful slaves he is talking about charactistics of a future group and thereore could be considered a prophecy.

    Sab, this entire thread demonstrates the downfall of communicating via parable (analogy). Some listeners will feel the need to over-interpret, or extend the analogy well past the point intended by the "teacher". Hence why over-reliance on parables and analogies is considered a sign of a poor teacher: it's an invitation for confusion (which actually MAY not be such a disadvantage, in religious teaching).

    For example, Jesus earlier says in Matt 24 that the Master will return as "a thief in the night", referring ONLY to the unexpected timing of the master's return. If you're prone to over-interpret every little element of the passage (as our resident conspiracists LOVE to do, with their Illuminati stuff), you'd ask why the master feels the need to break and enter into his own property to steal from his himself? Could he be planning to engage in some insurance fraud, perhaps filing a claim for loss of theft? If so, who would the insurance company be in the analogy, in spiritual terms? And if the faithful slave confused the master with an intruder in the dark, would he be justified in killing his master, taking him for a thief? It's absolutely silly to engage in ALL such ridiculous absurd arguments, but that's EXACTLY what people do with the later passage of FDS, taking it to absurd heights to which it wasn't intended to soar.

    As so many others have pointed out until they're blue in the face, a parable applies to ANYONE and EVERYONE: that's the whole POINT of a parable. Granted, Jesus seemingly offered an invitation to engage in this type of speculation when he asked,

    "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?"

    A superficial reading might suggest that he was asking of a SPECIFIC PERSON or GROUP, as if indicating that he was "teasing" his disciples, rhetorically about to answer his own question by saying something like, "It is the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses! They're the Faithful Slave of which I speak!"

    Consider that it COULDN'T be a prophecy about current events, since he frames the question that way. If he COULD tell them who it would be, then the slave would have to be known to his apostles/disciples at that time.

    Instead, consider it as asking a broad question that is yet to be determined, as if asking a general question, such as "who will graduate from college in 2016?" Obviously that would be those who enroll in college, do the required work, etc. It's not predictive, but simply stating an outcome which is yet to be determined by those taking the prescribed course of action.

    There is ZERO, ZILCH scriptural support for adding words and concepts to the Biblical passage (eg by creating a "slave CLASS", as if there's a hierarchy amongst the slaves, or a chain of command), a practice that is on par with errant scribes and Pharisees who added their man-made oral traditions, interpretations, and concepts into worship. Don't be one of those, as you become guilty of the same crime as the GB....

    I know, The Bible is fun to play with, but don't treat it as your personal binkie, a hand puppet that you can make say what you wish it to say.

    As leery as I am of posting links to Xian theology, this is reasonable reading to me:


    Matthew 24:45-51 (Go to this verse :: Verse pop-up )

    The parable of the faithful and evil servants admonishes us to be faithful and wise in carrying out responsibilities and relationships with our fellow servants, our brothers in the body of Christ.

    A faithful person is trustworthy, scrupulous, honest, upright, and truthful. Without specifically stating it, Christ is saying that we have to be keeping the first of the two great commandments: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind" (Matthew 22:37).

    In this context "wise" means judicious, prudent, sensible, showing sound judgment. It suggests an understanding of people and situations, showing unusual discernment and judgment in dealing with them. Just as Paul writes in I Thessalonians 5:6 about being self-controlled, Christ's use of "wise" indicates an exercising of restraint, using sound, practical wisdom and discretion, and acting in good sense and godly rationality. In short, Christ means exercising love. He tells us that we should be faithful in keeping the second of the two great commandments: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39).

    Since this parable applies to everyone, Christ admonishes us to lead in a way that unites and inspires others to be faithful. We do this by giving them the truth, a good example, and encouragement. In this way, we become wise and faithful stewards of the trust God has given us.

    In these verses, Christ strongly links belief with behavior in both examples. If we believe in His return, we will not live as we would like carnally. It is as simple as that. If we really believe He will return soon, this parable shows that our belief will regulate our lives, keeping us from extremes of conduct.

    This faithful attitude is opposed to that of the scornful servant, who says his master delays His coming and beats his fellows. His conduct turns for the worse as he eats and drinks with the drunkards. From the description Christ provides, the evil servant's attitude is arrogant, violent, self-indulgent, gluttonous, and hypocritical. Because he believes he has plenty of time to square his relationship with God, his conduct becomes evil.

    In summary, whoever is entrusted with duties must perform them faithfully, prepared at all times to account for what he has done. The key words in this parable are faithful, wise, and ready.

    John W. Ritenbaugh

    Read more: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/1105/Parable-of-Faithful-Evil-Servants.htm#ixzz24wtNJiAi

  • Fernando

    Jesus did not envision a surreptitious "ruling religious clergy class" (Pharisees and Sanhedrin) along with a "laity class" spiritually dependent on them and subservient to them.

    *** w09 10/15 p. 15 par. 14 “You Are My Friends” ***
    ...obey the direction provided by the faithful and discreet slave class...

    A search for "slave class" in wt lib 2010 produces 870 hits!

    (James 2:4) . . .YOU have class distinctions among yourselves and YOU have become judges rendering wicked decisions. . .

    (Matthew 23:8-11) . . .But YOU, do not YOU be called [FDS class], for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called ‘[Governing Body],’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. 11 But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister.

    (John 14:26) . . .But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU.

    (1 John 2:27) . . .YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU. . .

    (Hebrews 8:11) . . .And they will by no means teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother. . .

  • Fernando

    Some interesting contradictions:

    Watchtower, 12/15/71, 9. 749

    *** w07 11/1 p. 30 par. 12 Searching Into “the Deep Things of God” ***
    We accept the teaching that all of the anointed ones living on earth at any given time constitute “the faithful and discreet slave” that Jesus said would provide timely “food” for his domestics. (Matthew 24:45)

    *** w07 5/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
    How should a person be viewed who has determined in his heart that he is now anointed and begins to partake of the emblems at the Memorial? He should not be judged. The matter is between him and Jehovah. (Romans 14:12) However, genuine anointed Christians do not demand special attention. They do not believe that their being of the anointed gives them special “insights,” beyond what even some experienced members of the great crowd may have. They do not believe that they necessarily have more holy spirit than their companions of the other sheep have; nor do they expect special treatment or claim that their partaking of the emblems places them above the appointed elders in the congregation.

    (1 Timothy 2:5) . . .For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus. . .

    (John 14:6) . . .Jesus said to him: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    (Matthew 23:2) . . .“The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses [as pseudo mediators and VISIBLE golden calves].

    *** w09 6/15 p. 24 par. 16 The Faithful Steward and Its Governing Body ***
    Are all these anointed ones throughout the earth part of a global network that is somehow involved in revealing new spiritual truths? No.


    Thank you Fernando. I alluded to that article in a comment but did not have time to look it up. So that Watchtower article shows that regardless of what has been said before, whatever lip service has been given to the FDS as individuals, the rank-and-file only view the GB as having special insight. Aslo the GB have the most holy spirit of anyone in the minds of the R&F. If anointed brother or sister said that the " spirit of the truth " and God's word showed them a current opinion of the local elders or a current teaching of the GB was wrong, they would be in a back room quicker that you could say 1,200 furlongs! SCRIPTURALLY, a truly annointed Christian must have insight because Christ promised them that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all the truth. We know Christ did not speak his own thoughts but only what his Father wished. Since we know SCRIPTURALLY that God cannot lie, then Christ cannot lie, so the promise that truly anointed ones would have knowledge due to insight from the Holy Spirit must be true. So the above article is false and misleading, hence whomever wrote and approved it cannot be faithful or discreet.

  • Fernando

    Hi DATA-DOG, and it is a pleasure.

  • outsmartthesystem

    DJeggnogg.......is that you? You have mastered the art of circular reasoning just like the eggster. You keep demanding scriptural proof that the JWs are wrong in their interpretation of Matthew 24: 45-47. But your demand also requires the belief that this scripture has some sort of future fulfillment. You are using unproven supposition as the premise from which to build your argument. YOU need to first prove that this scripture is prophetic in nature as opposed to merely being an unexplained parable. If that can be done.....then.....logically the debate can be had as to whom the prophecy should apply to. "CaptainObvious went on a rant about Rutherford and Russell and more rhetoric, but didn't use any scriptures to prove JW's wrong." Scriptures aren't even necessary when failed prophesies by themselves will do the trick. But.....for giggles....how about Deuteronomy 18:20-22? "However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’" Compare with the masthead of the Awake for decades. "this magazein builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away" The Awake clearly gives Jehovah credit for "promising" that the "new world" will be here before the generation of 1914 passes away. That didn't happen. So they are, by definition in Deuteronomy, a false prophet. Did Jesus appoint a false prophet? "We know that Jesus parousia started in 1914 so it would be necessary for it to be happening right now in the 20th/21st century." No, we do not know that. Circular reasoning again. Prove that Christ's parousia began in 1914. Until you can do that....you are again....using unproven supposition as the premise from which to build your argument.

  • Fernando

    More contradictions:

    *** w89 9/15 p. 21 par. 5 Be Obedient to Those Taking the Lead ***
    On the earth today, the chief responsibility for caring for our spiritual needs has been entrusted to “the faithful and discreet slave.” Its representative Governing Body takes the lead and coordinates the worldwide Kingdom-preaching work. (Matthew 24:14, 45-47) Especially might these spirit-anointed elders be viewed as spiritual governors

    From OODAD: "We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know. The Governing Body does not keep a list of all partakers, for it does not maintain a global network of anointed ones." - Question From Readers, w2011 8/15 p. 22

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Recovery said:

    In all, over 2 pages of responses and they all have a common denominator: NO SCRIPTURAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST JW'S DOCTRINE OF THE FDS WERE GIVEN.

    You are VERY MISTAKEN on who bears the burden of proof here. It's NOT our burden to disprove their claim: it's up to THEM to quote scripture to PROVE that it's a prophecy pointing to the GB. They can't. That means they can "run their odd interpretation up the flagpole" all day long, but that doesn't mean anyone has to salute.

    It's not up to US to disprove their over-interpretation, but on THEM to prove WHY we should convert what is a parable into a prophecy.

    Take a secular parable, AKA Aesop's Fables (a work older than the Torah). Aesop said, "he who hesitates is lost". If taken as a prophecy, you could point to examples where the prophecy was FULFILLED repeatedly over history by pointing to WW2 battles that hinged on one side's failure to take decisive action.

    Problem is, there's also Aesop's advice to "look before you leap", which cautions against taking rash actions. This can SIMILARLY be used as a prophecy, and there's no lack of historical examples of imprudent actions leading to undesirable outcomes (eg Thalidomide use in 1960's after inadequate FDA study of dangers).

    And for BOTH "prophecies", there's also many examples where the outcome DID'NT happen, so the predictive value of the advice is poor, i.e. the correlation isn't there to support the hypothesis that the parable serves any predictive function any better than random chance.

    Bud, you and they are engaging in CHERRY-PICKING of facts, using only those which support the reading they wish to use. Worse, they are claiming that their own actions (forming a GB) is fulfilling the prophecy: hence they use prophecy as JUSTIFICATION for their actions, forcing it to be fulfilled. That is intellectual dishonesty of the highest order.

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