At least the Camping followers got fleeced and raped in one fell swoop. They may have foolishly given everything away before they went to the rapture party, but with hard work, they can rebuild their life and learn to stop following the teachings of pious men cloaked with the authority of God. Poor JWs never get it, because they have apparently injested a parasitic worm from the WT rag that has destroyed the logic part of their brain and turned them into slavish zombies of the reprobate WT leadership.
Who Really is The Faithful and Discreet Slave?
by Recovery 207 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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mrsjones5
Oh the ole "if not them who is?" question. I go which the stance that is a parable and no one is the FDS because that wasn't the reason for the parable/fable/myth. It's really very simple but I know some folks like to be complicated.
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transhuman68
The problem with the self-appointed 'Faithful and Discreet Slaves' explanation of the parable of the The Faithful and Discreet Slave, is that it requires you to accept the Watchtower's explanation of which parts of the Gospel are parables, prophecy, literal and figurative. A parable such as the Rich man and Lazarus is interpreted by Watchtower as having virtually no meaning at all. They pick and choose their scriptures, just like any other religion.
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sabastious
Yes we know that. Jesus is known for his great parables, many of which had literal, serious implications for his followers. What is your point?
Well thanks for your opinion but my question was asking for a better scriptural explanation of the parable.My point is that you interpret a parable by reading and contemplating on the parable and it's context, not by comparing it with unrelated books from various cultrual contexts. As a parable it doesn't have to be a prophecy. Your use of the term "scriptural" is erroneous because if I brought up scripture from hindu or chinese cultures you would deny them as scripture. So you get to do the defining while I do the explaining. You are rigging this conversation, but I would expect nothing less.
The June 15, 2009 Watchtower comments: "It (Spiritual Israel) came into existence with the outpouring of God’s spirit at Pentecost 33 C.E. Thereafter, all spirit-anointed Christians became part of the nation that now served as the slave class appointed by the Master, Jesus Christ. " Doesn't sound like the WT interprets the parable applying to a "single group of men" and even if they did interpret it as such, you still have not proven them scripturally wrong for their interpretation yet you so forthcomingly pronounce it as wrong.
They pay lip service to their members so that they feel included, but the actual creation of the "spiritual food" is done in Brooklyn and printed only after being approved by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses who all have people who work at their pleasure. The Governing Body are reported to by the various District and Circuit overseers of what is generally happening within the congregations. The DO's and CO's get their information from their dealings with the elders in their perspective territories.
All the elders are given a book called "Shepard the Flock of God" which is published by the Watchtower society upon aproval, by YOU GUESSED IT, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. So, it's a bit disingenuous of you to claim that the "slave class" is all annointed Christians in the Watchtower Society when you know the hierarchical structure and who sits on top the pyramid. But no need for all that, right? Just meaningless details that don't scriptually disprove the Governing Body's interpretation of Matthew 24 which puts them at the top of a power structure with billions of dollars in donations. Mmm hmm.
Not at all. There are over 70 scriptural references in just 4 paragraphs of information under the heading "Faithful and Discreet Slave" in the Insight Book, page 805. Yet you have still failed to provide just one scriptural reference for your interpretation and yet the WT is the one ignoring the Bible? Who really is ignoring the Bible sabastious, you or the WTS?
Thanks for your opinion, but I'm still waiting on that scriptural refutation of JW's interpretation of the FDS.70 > 0 is a compelling mathematical argument. In actuallity you have not proven to me that scriptual interpretation of Matthew 24 outside of the book of Matthew is even required. Nonetheless, I have directed you to certain stories in the old testament which is scripture just not within your proprietary quantification methods. Even so if I add up all the scriptures that speak about manna and their context I would have close to or more than 70, so there.
Well I would never read in a Watchtower where the anointed claim to be a legal entity.
Of course. It's setup that way so that if and when they are involved in illegal activity, like covering up child abuse for example, they remain outside of legal liability . The perfect crime! But scams always fall apart eventually, the good ones stay for a while, but they all eventually are exposed because people don't like getting scammed no matter what time you live in.
The faithful slave is providing proper food at the proper time before the Master arrives. Since Jesus appointed the slave before he arrives (again), then the slave would have to already be identified.
This doesn't make sense, can you rephrase?
Sure, sure, sure! Who am I to argue against the private scriptural interpretations and mighty Biblical arguments of the mighty sabastious?
The same thing could be said for the Governing Body and their precious printing presses. Who are they? They have 70 scriptures cited that don't support anything, that doesn't give them authority to disfellowship and appoint elders by holy spirit.
The simple test that Jesus told us was to examine the fruits. The Watchtower was involved in criminal activity both in California and Victoria Australia. They have never been interested in following any rules of government that conflicted what whatever rules they deemed to be from God. They derive this power from a misinterpretation of Matthew 24:45. Here are some good videos from a man who explains what happened in Victoria Austrialia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCGnEtAoEqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ila2QMbswSc
-Sab
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JW GoneBad
As Jesus, himself said ….’By their fruits you will recognize them.’ (Mat 7:16,20)
1) WT worships in accordance with a hateful, disfellowshipping and shunning policy.
2) WT has invented as a main doctrine a no-blood policy that they themselves have difficulty living by.
3) WT almost weekly if not monthly comes out with revisions and updates to its doctrines that the rank and file themselves are having difficulty keeping up with the changes.
4) WT is well known for their speculating, while God’s word commands do not go beyond the things that are written (1 Cor 4:6).
5) WT in these last days is busy buying, selling, building, marrying (GB Geoffrey Jackson). All the while telling the rank and file to go without!
6) WT fleeces the flock by continuously reminding them of the various avenues by which to donate: 1) Checks; 2) Cash; 3) Jewelry; 4) Debit and Credits Cards; 5) Real Estate; 6) Personal Property; 7) Wills and Trusts; 8) Stocks and Bonds; 9) Life Insurance Policies; 10) Gift Annuities; 11) Bank Accounts; 12) Etc, Etc, Etc!
7) WT is guilty of harboring, aiding and abetting pedophiles in and among the congregational arrangement.
Obviously the WTBTS and their GB miss the mark of being the Faithful and Discreet Slave!
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JW GoneBad
So, who really is the Faithful and Discreet Slave? Beats the hell out of me! One thing is for certain it ain’t any part of the WTBTS!
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King Solomon
Sab says:
It appears you are suffering from confirmation bias. The explanation by the Governing Body is not subscribed to even by the Governing Body.
File that one under "unintentional irony", displaying the very phenomena in the next sentence he accuses someone else of....
Recovery says:
The verses in question are a parable
Yes we know that. Jesus is known for his great parables, many of which had literal, serious implications for his followers.
Parable: a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
From wikipedia:
A parable is [ 1 ] a succinct story, in prose or verse, which illustrates one or more instructive principles, or lessons, or (sometimes) a normative principle. It differs from a fable in that fables use animals, plants, inanimate objects, and forces of nature as characters, while parables generally feature human characters. It is a type of analogy.
A parable is NOT a prophecy, and is NOT literal. It is ALWAYS a type of ANALOGY. NOT a prophecy.
The JWs as well (as many others) have been turning parables into prophecies with as much ease as Jesus turned water into wine.... That fact doesn't excuse the practice.
Sab said:
As a parable it doesn't have to be a prophecy.
Close, but it can NEVER properly be interpreted as a prophecy. If it contained a prophetic element, it would be CALLED a prophecy, NOT a parable. You guys cannot rewrite the NT, since you've got this great prophetic interpretation in mind that is really cool....
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Captain Obvious
The FDS is ME!
Yes, that's right Recovery, I have been appointed by the master over all his domestics. Now all you have to do, is mail me a check for as much as you can scrape together, and you will survive Armageddon! I guarantee it! Actually... JEHOVAH guarantees it. He said so in the bible.
Seriously though, why are you so stuck on this? The entire idea of applying this PARABLE to a person/group came from a reader of the early Zion's Watchtower. He/she wrote in to Russell, suggesting that this PARABLE could be applied to Russell himself. While he sort of made light of it at the time, he certainly never denied it. After his death, Rutherford declared that it was an indisputable fact! That Pastor Russell was th 'faithful and wise steward' mentioned in Matt. 24. To doubt this was to doubt the Lord himself!
Today, as you of course know the FDS is referred to as the entire collective body of the 'anointed remnant' even though these are NEVER called on for their opinions or beliefs. The GB does not consult their fellow "brothers of Christ" at all. So how can this be?
The simple fct of the matter though, is that when the evidence is weighed, the evidence for this just being a goddamned PARABLE and not a prophesy, not referring to a person, group, church, system or anything FAR outweighs the support for the WT current view, or even a variation thereof.
Piaf after your personal consideration of the bible account in context, and the points that have been presented you by the great minds on this board, you need to take a closer look at your own confirmation bias. We've all had to do it, even when we didn't know what it was. Maybe it's your turn.
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Aware!
There's no point in arguing about a parable. Do yourself a favor and always hear out what both sides have to say. If you've made it this far, then you can also go to jwfacts.com. One thing that I didn't know before learning the truth about "The Truth" was that Jesus was NOT my mediator. How can you agree/live with that when the Bible says the contrary? I'm quoting what the WT says and what the Bible says.
*** w79 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.
1 Timothy 2:5,6 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."
For more info visit: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php
The article above is full of Bible and WT quotations; compare them.
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Fernando
Welcome Recovery!
I'd be intrested to know your sincere, honest and well researched thoughts on who are/is "the anointed"
in the New Covenant scriptures,
versus in the Watchtower.