Evidence for God...

by tec 251 Replies latest jw friends

  • NewChapter

    They DO cover their tracks when they add to the prophecy that the day will come when people no longer believe the prophecy. It's genius. They know they will be found out, and so they make the process of finding out unrighteous and prepare those who believe in the prophecy to disregard those that don't.

    Did Jesus die for prophecy? I think he died for political reasons---if the stories have a grain of truth in them. For the sake of the argument, I will assume that Jesus was executed by the Romans.


    As far as records go, Jesus was on trial for sedition, stirring up of rebellion against the government in power. The Israelite nation was under Roman control. The Romans allowed the Scribes and Pharisees to remain because they kept the Israelite nation in line and gave the impression that Israel had a measure of freedom. Jesus was a political agitator. He began to be viewed as a king by some, hence the palm branch episode. He talked of his followers joining him in his kingdom, very dodgy and also a prophecy.

    One of the ways he caused agitation was by making prophecies that undermined the established order. He spread unrest and a hunger for change, p rophesying the destruction of Jerusalem for example and the demise of the Pharisees for being hypocrites.

    Things in life are seldom black or white - so Tammy & NC it seems you both have a valid point of view.

  • tec

    They know they will be found out, and so they make the process of finding out unrighteous and prepare those who believe in the prophecy to disregard those that don't.

    This only means something if they are the ones who made up the lie... but people don't tend to be willing to die for some bogus idea that they invented themselves, and know is a lie.

    Now that we have arrived at the place where Still and I left off last night, I'm off to work, lol.

    Peace (and also to Glad, the peacemaker, above)


  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Here is where Jesus said Moses wrote...

  • John 5:46 "But if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me because he wrote about me. And since you don't believe what he wrote, how will you believe what I say?"
  • Luke 24:44 "...I told you that everything written about me by Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must all come true."
  • Mark 12:24 "...haven't you ever read about this in the writings of Moses, in the story of the burning bush..."
  • Romans 10:5 "For Moses wrote..."
  • still thinking
    still thinking

    I think I can see why you are not understanding what I am trying to say...and I apologise for not being able to say what I am thinking clearly.

    You are coming from that stand point that Jesus is Gods son....so he died for what he knew. From that stand point, if you believe the bible, He did die for what he knew directly from having been with God before coming to earth....but first you must believe what the bible says about him.

    But, what I am saying is that if he isn't the son of god, as in, not from heaven. He LEARNT all he knew from his parents, rabbis, etc...it was not what he knew, it was what he learnt. He quotes moses, because he learnt his knowlege of god from Moses. He may have died for what he believed to be the truth...but, he is no different from any other person who died for what they believed...a martyr maybe.

    It only makes a difference if you believe Jesus was gods son. And we only have his word for that....well, not even his word...other peoples words...and other people that we cannot clearly identify.

    And then, of course there is the issue of him quoting Moses, he confirms that moses wrote those books...but we cannot be so certain.

    This thread is about evidence for God...and the only evidence that Jesus was gods son is found in the bible and written by people who are anonymous. Then there are Jesus quotes..."it is written" and "Moses said"....but did Moses write? and did he say anything of the sort? Scholars are now coming to the conclusion that Moses did not write the pentateuch...so was Jesus wrong? How could he be gods son if he was wrong about that?

    So...my point is....if Jesus is not Gods son...he did not make up a lie...he just believed what he was taught....which is why I am attempting to go back and establish who did first talk about this god as he is known. And I cannot cleary see who it was since Moses is under question himself...but even if he was the first...Moses himself did not die for what he believed...

    Deu 34:7 And Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

  • OnTheWayOut

    I just can't bring myself to reading 12 pages of the same-old same-old. Tec, from what I have glanced at on here, you simply need to google "Confirmation Bias" and search it on JWN also. There's some good videos if you search "confirmation bias" on youtube, too.

    I can't speak for atheism altogether, but as for myself, I have made sure I wasn't engaged in confirmation bias when I looked at God contacting people in some direct or indirect way before I dismissed it. I made sure I wasn't engaged in confirmation bias before I dismissed the Bible, particularly the Gospels. You have to be able to consider that you are wrong before you overcome confirmation bias.

  • InterestedOne
    You have to be able to consider that you are wrong before you overcome confirmation bias.

    Excellent point. When I had recently converted to evangelical Christianity, I encountered a more seasoned Christian who was on his way out of it. He said you have to be willing to even lay down the card that is your faith and be willing to consider the possibility that what you have committed to might not be true. I retorted, "no way. I cannot lay down that card." At the time I felt as though such a thing would make me a traitor or disloyal or something. It took me 15 years to realize he was right.

  • Twitch

  • sizemik

    Twitch . . . love that quote.

    The ignorant deal in answers. The knowlegeable deal in questions.

  • Twitch

    word :)

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