Evidence for God...

by tec 251 Replies latest jw friends

  • Robert7
    Life does not come from nothing

    If the above is true, then who created God?

  • tec

    Thank you all for your thoughtful contributions, and Glad also for your generous words. I know it is a long post.

    I am sorry i am off to work for the day, but I will respond to all of you this evening. I have longed to have a discussion that does not have to rely upon 'suspending belief for the sake of argument.' Just one that is open to hearing one another, which does not have to mean agreeing with.



  • NewChapter

    How can a purely natural species conceive of the spiritual/the supernatural?

    How can they concevie of such? Think about dreams! These must have baffled a purely natural species and been evidence of some type of parallel dimension. Humans are also very suseptible to logical fallacies. Take superstition. A baseball player wears a pair of new socks and pitches a perfect game. Suddenly the socks become magical even though he knows better. How much more so for people that don't know better. Has it not rained in a long time? Well your band did some dances and bang---rain. Not understanding the science behind weather, and feeling powerless, it is quite natural to dance the next time it does not rain.

    But I have never known a single person who can conceive of something that has not been built upon previous knowledge, or observation of the physical world

    Exactly. The ancients observed. They observed that when they did a certain dance, it rained. They were limited by their own personal observations---or that of others.

    Life does not come from nothing (or death, which is a form nothing).

    And now you fall victim to exactly what our ancestors did. You base this on current observations only. You have never seen life come from nothing, and assume this is always so. Scientists don't accept this as the big stopping point, and they have some interesting hypothesis---but we will never find the answer with a bunch of people sitting around saying it is impossible.

    I'm not even going into the Christ stuff---because that is very new it makes no sense to apply any of it to people that danced for rain. They had no knowledge of what would come many thousands of years in the future---and if this Christ is for real, it certainly was silent as it watched all of this unenlightened creation dance for rain. For that matter, for what you claim to be true, we'd have to acknowledge that this person did not reveal itself for ages and remained cold and distant. Not a good recommendation.


  • Terry

    God is an idea which offers escape from certain death that most humans would rather entertain than reject because nobody wants to die.

    Why not?

    What do you lose with such an insurance policy?

    That was Pachal's Wager. In essence, why tick off the one possible rescuer?

    Well, heck--if that were ALL there was to it----sure!

    But, nooooo. It isn't all. Not by a long shot.

    Just holding the teddy bear warm and fuzzy in your heart and saying "Jesus" won't cut it for even one minute!

    That wouldn't offend, divide, test, incite or otherwise condemn anybody to anything more than Hope.

    It is far more complicated!

    Groups of people have co-opeted the franchise. Religion holds the monopoly.

    You have to pay to play. You have to hoe the row and walk the line and talk the talk. Or else!

    Ask yourself why this beloved (and feared) character from ancient literature spent millions and millions of years on spikey beats with fangs, claws and extinctions FIRST? And only THEN--created the "real" purpose of creation: mankind.

    Two unwitting creatures with no childhood, no parents, no family of brothers or sisters are manifested out of mud and a ribcage bone!

    They have never learned the difference (over long childhood, adolescence and schooling with peers) between Good and Evil!

    But, Life and Death for them is the whole point of a TEST! A test of what? Not the use of intelligence, rational thinking, knowledge or experience!

    It is about BELIEVING. Believing what? Not facts! Nooooo. Believing one invisible voice on one side who tells you things and a visible serpent with legs telling you something else.

    Wow! What kind of supernatural superbeing puts the fate of billions of future human beings in such hands on such a STUPID test??


    This is the "historical" record of this "person" we call God.

    Mean, violent, subject to persuasion by humans, tit-for-tat on Justice in the Old Testament--but--

    a genuine pussycat who violates his own laws and just FORGIVES everything as long as a blood sacrifice in backwater Bronze Age Palestine pays His price:

    which is what? The death of His own son!!

    Wow! Who wouldn't want to accept this into their heart and dedicate their entire life to glowingly repeating the story???

  • John_Mann

    {To begin with, allow me to state that Christ is the basis of my entire faith.}

    So you mean the BIBLE is the basis of your entire faith b/c you just know Jesus Christ due to existence of the bible. There is no Jesus Christ outside the bible.

  • Mall Cop
    Mall Cop

    I am sorry because I don't want to hurt your feeling and your beliefs. Evidence for God in this topic is based on your own circular reasoning. Think about this being told us from any other religious spiritual person other than your own conclusions. Which one would have evidence for God in their own life experience totally opposite to yours.

    Here is one for you. There are known knowns,and unknowns and sometimes we have to leave at that.

  • Finkelstein

    In concerning YHWH, couldn't and wouldn't mankind all be better off by using his imagination once again and creating

    a god without unflappable moral values, perhaps one that isn't so viciously cruel and apathetically murderous toward mankind ?

    Not to throw dirt on the Jesus god but his father is something else.

    One could describe him as primitively barbaric but I suppose since he was created thousands of years ago by primitively barbaric people,

    this particular God is generic from the ancient Hebrews.

  • NewChapter

    In concerning YHWH, couldn't and wouldn't mankind all be better off by using his imagination once again and creating a god without unflappable moral values, perhaps one that isn't so viciously cruel and apathetically murderous toward mankind ?

    I'm game. Lets do it now. Should we start with a name?

  • jgnat

    Gladiator, I very much appreciate your observations. You say it better than I could have.

    Tec, do you need evidence?


    jgnat I alway enjoy and respect your posts.

    You seldom comment on my posts, so your words means a lot to me.

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