by sabastious 47 Replies latest jw friends
If the Horn-Blowing at Cedar Point Ohio doesn't impress them, you could play your trump card and explain how the two witnesses in Revelation pictures Rutherford and the other brothers sent to prison during WWI. When you explain how they figuratively came back to life after being released from prison, you will be able to hear a pin drop.
Rub a Dub
They said that the BOM is only a single translation which they use to suport it's uniqueness against older sacred texts of other faiths. They seem to hold it above the Bible (just my opinion so far) because the Bible was subject to "telephone games" whereas the BOM was not.
Yeah, I've heard all that before. I grew up with Mormons. Played with them, went to school with them, worked with them, worked for them, dated them, went to their services out of curiosity.
Translational issues from the KJV in the BOM kinda blows that argument out of the water.
Youtube is almost as good as Wikipedia... here are a couple of youtube videos that may help explain some of the mormon beliefs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HSlbuli7HM&feature=related
What Mormons Really Believe
http://www.pcbdesign007.com/pages/zone.cgi?a=83862
The second video is over an hour long... I only watched the first ten minutes or so.
Regards,
Jim TX
Is Galations 1 verse 8 thier favourite scripture?
You could also ask them what year the gathering of the anointed was complete and the other sheep class identified.
After they look at each other and stare at you like a deer in the headlights, lean back in your chair and say "1935".
They will realize that they are in way over their heads with you.
Rub a Dub
I might get tarred for this, but I've always found LDS missionaries to be really pleasant. I have several returned missionaries as students and colleagues, and they're all pretty personable and good-natured. They're just kids and they spend all day either getting doors slammed on them or being called idiots. So...maybe just be nice to them? For the most part, they want to be on their missions about as much as any of us ever wanted to be in service. Even worse, most of them go to two years with only talking to their families a couple of times. They're lonely, far from home, physically exhausted, and complete outsiders.
So extend some kindness and don't mock them or their beliefs. You can be a lot more effective in planting seeds of doubt through casual conversation than through interrogation and pigeon-holing.
Oh, and as far as caffeine goes: It is not official church doctrine that they can't consume caffeine (I think their own FAQ addresses that, actually), but most Mormons interpret D&C 89's reference to "strong drinks" to refer to caffeine, so they do avoid it. Caffeine in chocolate, medications, and other sources than coffee and tea isn't seen as taboo at all, and many younger or more lax Mormons will have the occasional soda.
I too have found every missionary I have talked with to be pleasant, and interested in my story, born-in and eventually finding out the truth about my religion.
I urge them to look at ex-mormon sites, and to open their mind to alternative ideas, I don't know if this has helped any of them, but I do hope so.
I do not spend much time specifically on their beliefs, more on why I do not believe what I did any more,( because the JW/WT religion does not stand up to scrutiny), I urge them to put their own religion under the same powerful spot-light, reasoning that the "truth" has nothing to fear from scrutiny and facts.
Strong drinks refers to alcohol - hot drinks refers to coffee and tea and hence by extension where the zealous get the caffeine ban. The actual Word of Wisdom indicates that they should drink beer (mild drinks made from barley as opposed to hard drinks meaning spirits.) They won't know that.
If you really want to ask them something to make them think as them how they know that the burning in their bosom / whatever they experience when they 'feel' the spirit is actually a divine manifestation? Ask them what else they think it could be.
Ask them what would make Mormonism false - for them. Ask them what they would really do if they found out it was false. Ask them what they have done to check that they aren't being deceived. Stay on this topic.
Doctrine isn't a very productive area. imo.
Any ex-mormons here? Shunning is just like what JW's do to a T
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication#The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-Mormon#Psychological
Just like JW's they are selective as to what to say and they avoid saying certain things at all.
I have a distant mormon cousin in Idaho - we connected through a dna testing website- and for a smart businessman he sure wastes a lot of time looking for dead ancestors (to proxy baptize). A couple of times when I tried to point out some inconsistencies in his faith he seemed to get kinda huffy about it, so I leave it alone. He has a lot to lose, if he quit his faith- six kids, a wife, borthers, sisters, nieces, nephews, auts uncles and umpteen grandchildren- way over 100 close relatives, so he isn't going to seriously look at anything that rocks his Mormon boat.
