One Lord - One Savior : Get Used To It

by Perry 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Andrew Sh
    Andrew Sh

    What think you of Christ? is the test

    To try both your state and you scheme;

    You cannot be right in the rest,

    Unless you think rightly of him.

    As Jesus appears in your view,

    As he is beloved or not,

    So God is desposed to you,

    And mercy or wrath are your lot.

    Some take him a creature to be,

    A man, or an angel at most;

    Sure these have not feelings like me,

    Nor know themselves wretched and lost:

    So guilty, so helpless, am I,

    I durst not confide in his blood,

    Nor on his protection rely,

    Unless I were sure he is God.

    Some call him a Saviour, in word,

    But mix their own works with his plan;

    And hope he his help will afford,

    When they have done all that they can:

    If doings prove rather too light

    (A little, they own, they may fail)

    They purpose to make up full weight,

    By casting his name in the scale.

    Some style him the pearl of great price,

    And say he's the fountain of joys;

    Yet feed upon folly and vice,

    And cleave to the world and its toys:

    Like Judas, the Saviour they kiss,

    And, while they salute him, betray;

    Ah! what will profession like this

    Avail in his terrible day?

    If asked what of Jesus I think?

    Though still my best thoughts are but poor;

    I say, he's my meat and my drink,

    My life, and my strength, and my store,

    My Shepherd, my Husband, my Friend,

    My Saviour from sin and from thrall;

    My hope from beginning to end,

    My Portion, My LORD, and my All.

    By John Newton, author of hymn "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound".

    (John Newton was born to a godly mother, who died when he was young. He rebelled and ended up involved

    in the slave trade. At one point he was a slave himself, and nearly died from bad treatment. He escaped

    and continued his involvement in the slave trade. In a terrible storm at sea he promised his life to God,

    if God would only spare him his life. God did spare him his life and he kept his promise. He went on to become a minister

    of the gospel in Buckinghamshire, England and London and was a great encourager of William Wilberforce in his

    battle against the Slave Trade.)

  • designs
    designs

    John Newton and Wilberforce did important work fighting the slave trade, they had to become heretics to the Pauline message of slaves returning to their masters.

  • Andrew Sh
    Andrew Sh

    " Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so." Paul's first letter to the Corinthians 7v21.

    If Paul had lived in the days of Newton and Wilberforce I expect he would have been preeminent in trying to abolish the Slave Trade. Different circumstances call for different approaches: in the days of the New Testament the possibility of slavery being abolished was nil.... slavery was all pervasive. If any slave rebelled against the system, the chances were pretty high he was going to an early grave, and what was there to be gained?

    It must figure in our decisions what to do about any injustice... if we resist/fight what is the likely outcome? Would such resistance be futile? Is the suffering going to be worse than if we just submit, and will anything be gained?

    Slavery itself was different: in the days of Newton it was often vicious to an extreme; in the days of the New Testament slaves were often treated quite well, and sometimes were treated as sons and daughters. Where the master had no children of his own the slaves might end up inheriting their masters property.

  • Andrew Sh
    Andrew Sh

    Designs,

    Besides all that, Paul was writing under inspiration of God. John Newton and William Wilberforce and other evangelicals such as William Knibb, loved God and understood God's attitude towards slavery: they expressed God's heart on slavery: the evangelical awakening, and increases in the democratic franchise meant evangelicals had a political influence and, by their numbers, an ability to influence public opinion, that had rarely been seen before. They were in a position to fight for its abolition.

    I don't mean to be rude, Designs, but do you really think that you understand the Scriptures, the heart of Paul, and the heart of God, better than these men?

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    One Lord one Saviour - I agree!

  • TimeBandit
    TimeBandit

    It seems to me I don't need Jesus for anything. He's nothing but a daddy's boy. His pop sacrificed him for all of three days? What's that in Jehovah time, like three seconds? My lord and savior is in a baggie in my stash box....

    Chris-

  • designs
  • TTWSYF
    TTWSYF

    Hi Perry,

    Good post with plenty of explicit scriptural proof texts supporting your position. And the same ol' group of doubters come out when this type of post comes out.

    That said, it looks a little like your starting a fight. I know it's one sided because the bible states Jesus is God explicitly. No question about it. One scriptural proof that I did not see is from the Old Testament....and I quote from the NWT for those interested.

    IS 9;6 For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

    I like how the WTS uses capital letters in the titles of the child born. Looks like Perry's right guys.

    dc

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits
    Andrew: Slavery itself was different: in the days of Newton it was often vicious to an extreme; in the days of the New Testament slaves were often treated quite well, and sometimes were treated as sons and daughters. Where the master had no children of his own the slaves might end up inheriting their masters property.

    My glans, that sounds positively delightful! Please tell me where that divine system of slavery is still available as an alternative to freedom. I'd like to sign up.

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    If you believe the bible, Jesus is a creation; therefore he logically cannot be the only lord, and certainly not God almighty. He is also a mediator between man and God, mediating with yourself would be stupid. These arguments of one lord don't hold water get used to it (LOL)!

    Furthermore Christain apologists cannot dismiss the God of the OT, as the apple (son) doesn't fall far from the tree; Jesus being the image of the almighty.

    1 Cor 8:4-6

    Now concerning the eating of foods offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are those who are called “gods,” whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ,through whom all things are, and we through him.

    Col 1:14-15

    He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, 14 by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.

    Proverbs 8:22-30

    The LORD (YHWHhttp://qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/proverbs/8.html) himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains,
    When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.

    Hebrews chapters 7-8

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