One Lord - One Savior : Get Used To It

by Perry 106 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    This is for Andrew (original at http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.php) and I'm sure it's been posted on JWN quite a bit in the past but I think it's worth reposting:

    This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

    John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

    Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

    Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"

    John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the shit out of you."

    Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

    John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."

    Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

    Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

    Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

    John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

    Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

    Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

    Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"

    John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

    Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

    Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you."

    Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

    John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

    Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

    John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

    Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

    Mary: "Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

    Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

    John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"

    Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

    John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the shit out of you."

    Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

    Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

    Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"

    John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

    Me: "Who's Karl?"

    Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

    Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

    John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."
    From the Desk of Karl

    Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
    Use alcohol in moderation.
    Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
    Eat right.
    Hank dictated this list Himself.
    The moon is made of green cheese.
    Everything Hank says is right.
    Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
    Don't use alcohol.
    Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
    Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the shit out of you.

    Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

    Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

    Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

    John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

    Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

    Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

    Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"

    Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

    Me: "How do you figure that?"

    Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

    Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

    John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

    Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

    John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

    Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

    Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

    Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

    John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

    Me: "We do?"

    Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

    Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

    John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

    Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

    Mary: She blushes.

    John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

    Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

    John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

    Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

    Mary: She looks positively stricken.

    John: He's shouting. "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

    Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

    Mary: Sticks her fingers in her ears."I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

    John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

    Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

    Mary: She faints.

    John: He catches Mary. "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

    With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

  • NewChapter
  • Andrew Sh
    Andrew Sh

    Well, dear, oh dear, NewChapter,

    You have some rather harsh words against me, though I've never aimed to hurt you at all, quite the contrary. I hope you will bear with me while I reply.

    "First he must convince everyone that they are sinners" - Sorry, NewChapter, but you've got the wrong man, that is the work of the Holy Spirit, "When he comes (ie the Holy Spirit) he will convince the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement to come. Of sin, because they believe not on me. (John 16:8,9). And to be convinced of sin there must be some willingness to be convinced, "For everyone that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:20) It would be sad, though, to hear of people who are dying of a terrible disease to refuse to go to the doctor simply because they don't want to hear any bad news. What a tragedy when anyone prefers the comfort of their sins than the real comfort of deliverance from sin. It seems people choose not to believe on Christ because they want to hang on to sin, not because of intellectual reasons.

    So I am a snake oil salesman? I looked this up in the dictionary:

    "Snake oil - a product that has been proved to not live up to its marketing hype". Proved? But am I not right in saying that you haven't tried my Biblical Christianity, so how can you possibly know? You have no proof; you do not know. I have tried it, and proved it does work, so have many million others, including probably at least some of your grandparents, great grand parents and great great grandparents. (I am musing if you are, by your own reckoning, offspring of a long line of snake oil salesmen and saleswomen.) Do you not also imply I am making money out of this? After all, that is what salesmen do. But I haven't made a penny out of my Christianity, and nor am I seeking any from anyone on this site. ... in fact, quite the opposite, my beliefs cost me rather a lot of money and no small amount of time.

    Many on this site have been conned by the snake oil salesmen of the Watchtower, selling their very dodgy false doctrines, and even been snake oil salesmen themselves. You might have been a snake oil salesman yourself in the past: I don't hold it against you; and am glad you have at least seen as much light as to get you out of the WTS. Perhaps for some time, when the light was dawning for you, you were promoting even what you knew to be a lie. I expect some have, and some on this site have admitted as much. If you did such I don't hold that against you either. But you say you are not a sinner, so I'm sure you didn't do such an unsavoury thing.

    Please don't tar all Bible-based faiths with the same brush. Why do so many cults use the Bible as their main book (or at least pretend it is so)? Is it not simply because the Bible is clearly very different from any other book, even at least highly suggestive of being of divine origin? Why don't more cults start with the Qu'ran, or some book of the Hindu faith? The Bible is different, there are clear marks of its being from God. What am I driving at? One of the Bible-based faiths must be right. I believe that one to be classic Bible-believing Christianity.

    "Be warned, I and others take it very seriously when someone comes here threatening people with hellfire." I must say I'm dumbfounded with this one. Can you please tell me why you have written this? Have I so much as mentioned hellfire, anywhere !! at all !! ?? Please show me the place. As for "threatening people", NewChapter, your fingers started overheating when you were typing this, surely they got carried away by themselves.

    But do I believe in hellfire? Well, I don't know that I have been pushing that at all, here. I can't remember even mentioning it here. But I do believe it, the world would make no sense without it. How could a God of love allow all the wickedness against defenceless people, especially women and children, go forever unpunished? There is so much wickedness that will never be found out by men, but God knows. There is other wickedness that is found out, but false judges proclaim the wicked innocent, and the innocent they proclaim as guilty. Who could be happy to think that so much wickedness will never be punished, either here or hereafter??

    http://www.inplainsite.org/html/the_wrath_of_god_2.html

    And how could He allow people to go unpunished who just ignore the hand that feeds them day in and day out, week in, week out, year in year out? even rebelling against Him and hating Him, without any good cause?

    So I have a sick version of God? Please tell me how my version of God differs from the version of God proclaimed in the Holy Scriptures and I promise you I will thank you and change my views immediately. I simply believe in the God who has it written in His Word "He that believes on the Son has everlasting life; and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36.

    If that is a sick version of God for you then that is a great tragedy, because He is the true God, the one who is revealed in his Son who went about doing all those wonderful miracles of kindness and goodness, and offering pardon to anyone who simply turns back to him in faith and repentance. To say that He is not the Son of God, and that the Bible is not the Word of God, I think you have to really make a big effort of unbelief to arrive at either of these views.

    Though you might not be interested in finding true religion and the forgiveness of sins there are others who do. I write hoping to be a small help to them.

  • designs
    designs

    'Do I believe in hellfire. I do believe it' Well we kinda figured

  • bohm
    bohm

    Bohms law: The chance a poster is crazy is proportional to the capitalized words mid-sentence.

    But thanks for the speach!

  • Andrew Sh
    Andrew Sh

    Sweet Baby Cheesy,

    Well, I have never seen it before. You would have to be very odd not to like it.

    I have to think of a reply. Sorry it won't be as witty. But let me see. Maybe it will. Perhaps I will get my printer working and show it to my Pastor... he's got a quicker mind than me.

    A few thoughts off the top of my head:-

    1 - It supposes that there is no experience of God in this life, which is not true.

    2 - It supposes that the Christian's experience of power over temptations by the doctrines of the gopsel is delusional... an impossibilty for the Christian to contemplate.

    3 - It supposes that the answered prayers of a believer are all coincidental, again, an impossibility.

    4 - It supposes that noone can have any certainty of the truth of the Bible: not true. Many, many martyrs, Polycarp, all the Christians who died in Circus Maximus, all those Pastors dying in the Nuclear Gulag of Communist USSR, and thousands upon thousands more. Were they all delusional? (I know many JWs have also suffered. But they suffered under threat of disfellowshipping, possibly losing friends and family, if they didn't tow the WTS line. No such disfellowshipping for all these. Some caved in to the pressure... they were forgiven by their Christian peers, upon repentance.)

    5 - It paints a caricature of God which is utterly unlike the character of God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was loving and kind, not a vindictive, threatening, bully. I cannot put my finger exactly on this at the moment, to hit home the difference, and hope to get a good counter-story later!!

    6 - It supposes that the Bible is not inspired by God: because how could God be so unreasonable as our story shows? And, sure, our story is just the Bible message in a different form. But who else could have written the Bible? Bad men could never have written so good a book, and good men would never have said it were inspired by God if this were a lie.

    7 - It supposes that you who reject Jesus Christ and the God of the Bible have a better idea of His character than those who embrace and love Him. I don't worship God out of fear of hell, or fear of punishment... those things might have helped bring me to God, and I'm thankful those truths were helpful in bringing me to him. But now I am free, and freely love God out of choice, not out of fear at all: perfect love casts out fear.

    Must think of a better reply. Take care.

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits
    Andrew: I don't worship God out of fear of hell, or fear of punishment... those things might have helped bring me to God, and I'm thankful those truths were helpful in bringing me to him. But now I am free, and freely love God out of choice, not out of fear at all: perfect love casts out fear.

    Oh that. Yeah, psychologists call it Stockholm Syndrome.

    Stockholm Syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other." -wiki

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