IS GOD REAL? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

by still thinking 778 Replies latest jw friends

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  soft+gentle

  good morning stillthinking

  soft+gentle...good morning to you... Now, this grace you refer too.....you say it is not the in the religious sense, so not by mercy that we understand more fully. So, are you saying that we gain complete understanding from beauty and love? You wouldn't be leading me down the path of Universalism would you? I think this is the journey Flying High was trying to take me on. ...LOL If you are referring specifically to being kind to ourselves and allowing ourselves the grace to make mistakes and learn from our errors without chastising ourselves...I think I am more in agreement and understaning of what you meant...we cannot learn or move forward without that. We are encapsulated in our own ignorance... So in effect...kindness to ourselves leads to knowledge?...but is it knowledge of God? Or is God truly within?

  I think grace resists categorization and specificity but is very much to do with particularity and contingency. And this reminds me of your second question - the one to do with the small quivering I in the eye of the hurricane. The I that is formed here is in response to a highly charged intense moment one which necessitates many features of grace. thanks for reminding me of this

  Your mention of universalism made me quite puzzled as I'm not sure if you mean universalism in the sense of the UU church or if you mean universalism as uniformity? Also I'm trying to have a discussion with you and am definitely not trying to lead you down a religious path.

  Kindness, beauty, love - yes so long as they are not divorced from their bubbling livliness to take and give life
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  still thinking

  soft+gentle...so inner knowlege or at least our version of it, depends a great deal on chance and the way in which we deal with it 'grace'?

  When we have challenging events in our lives these are opportunities to expand the fullness of the I, but it depends on our perception of the event. I suppose this is where 'grace' comes in again.

  Is grace developed do you think? A bit like empathy...I wonder if empathy is a part of our personality or if it evolves from experiences.

  So, if these attributes are a part of us...I wonder if that is one reason why some are drawn to a god that we percieve to hold all these virtues...is it a denial of what exists within? Or are we looking at gods reflection in the mirror? Are we really the image of God in this way?

  I think it is interesting that many of the gnostics refer to god being within...maybe this is what they were touching on.

  By the way...the universalist question was just checking. I'm not even sure what they do at a UU church. I'm off to google that now......google is my friend....LOL
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  LouBelle

  I was raised to believe in an external god/ruler/creator my whole life. I was raised to have a relationship with him, to worship him, to pray to him, to cry to him, to beg him for help, to answer my prays, to show me the way, to show the truth to me, to guide me.............

  and yet there was no great response. oh I thought there was some trickle now ang again, because if some little thing went my way I didn't look to my own personal efforts (because I couldn't make a change) , it had to come from god......

  And then I sat back and looked in hindsight at my life, the 35 years that I have lived and came to know that each and every decision, action was totally mine, I owned it all. There was no outside influence, it was all me. I took full responsibility for my life. If was a life changing moment. I went into a bit of a depression as I had let go of something I have believed in for so long.

  And now, I am okay. I know whatever I want is in my own hands, not some uncaring, unanswering god.
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  still thinking

  I went into a bit of a depression as I had let go of something I have believed in for so long.

  Thats exactly how I felt LouBelle
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  soft+gentle

  hi stillthinking

  In talking to you and reading this part of the thread - what you and loubelle are saying, plus with the input from what I have learned via literary studies, I'm deciding that grace is part of a powerful visitation a powerful addition to whatever resources we have. But is a two way system in that we receive, innovate and amplify back.

  thanks for helping me crystallize what grace means.
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  LouBelle

  I have never felt as blessed as I do now.

  I don't have to feel so bad for not living up to a set of rules/regulations that a god has put in place , or that I'm so underserving of forgiveness from this god that the only way I'm going to get it is through his grace. I ask myself "Lou, what have you done to feel so unworthy that you need grace to cover your multitude of sins?" NOTHING

  When it comes to dealing with people, I use my dicretion and with a real, live person, if they have upset me, I will forgive, forget and move on - that is grace in every day life and in action, and if I have upset someone, the hope is they would treat me the same (some do some don't, I can be gracious in my actions in how I react to that)

  Again I state - I have never been so at peace, so at rest as I am now, knowing I am accountable for my actions and take full responsibilities in my own hands. I own my life.
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  still thinking

  good morning soft+gentle...

  I'm glad for you that you have come to some sort of conclusion. I am still thinking about that...

  Could grace simply be compounded by reward. When we are kind and loving we are rewarded with good feelings. Doesn't this then encourage more moments of grace on a subconscience level, whether towards ourselves or for others? Is grace the gift we give ourselves inspired by previous results?

  I suppose though, we could still ask the question...where did this feeling of grace originate? Is it learnt by accident? Does it originate within? Or does god play a part? Is it a gift?

  Loubelle

  I understand what you mean by being at peace. Since I have let go of KNOWING there is a god I feel that peace to. I have a new connection to the poeple around me and the ones I love. I see life differently and much more positively.

  But I suppose there is still a part of me that just can't completely let go of the idea of a higher power of some sort. I am trying to figure out why. Life seems to make perfect sense without one. Life seems more precious without a god too...life with a god seems disposable in some ways. I saw a picture posted on another thread that had a small starving child and a vulture. I couldn't help looking at that picture and wondering how a loving god could permit such suffering of innocent children. And on the other hand, from the perspective of there being no God, how awful it was, that we only get one shot at life, and that is their lot. That saddens me more than anything god could do or not do...maybe the idea of a god softens that blow somewhat...we can at least say they will go to heaven...or be rewarded in some way....but really..how much more would be done for these children if the world realised this is it....there is no other reward....lets help everyone to have the best life they can.
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  LouBelle

  hiya stillthinking - that pic was taken in Africa and actually won an award. That is the reality!

  I would also like for there to be a god. Like when I was a kid, I so wished there was a superman. For me, it is just us. Us humans have to show love or not. If we do, we help, we care etc, if we don't the opposite is true.
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  defender of truth

  http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJRy3Kl_z5E&feature=youtu.be