Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-29-2012 WT Study (TRAIN OTHERS)

Several years ago, I said that fewer male children of jws were getting baptized, or becoming MS, and there were more ex-elders who were not interested in getting back in the hassle, congregations with 5 elders and 8 ex-elders, only one MS and he would never qualify, could not read. Ten years later, it is even worse, and the WTS is hurting with MS and elders average over 55 years of age.

START OF ARTICLE

1. During his earthly ministry, how did Jesus lay

the foundation for a remarkable congregation?

CONCLUDING his Gospel account, the

apostle John wrote: “There are, in fact,

many other things also which Jesus did,

which, if ever they were written in full detail,

I suppose, the world itself could not contain

the scrolls written.” (John 21:25) Among all

the things that Jesus accomplished during

his short but dynamic ministry was the locating,

training, and organizing of men who

would take the lead after his earthly sojourn.

When he returned to heaven in 33 C.E., Jesus

left behind the foundation of a remarkable

congregation that would quickly number

into the thousands.—Acts 2:41, 42; 4:4;

6:7.

COMMENTS

Was Jesus sent to find, train, and organize males?

*** w08 2/15 p.12 par.2***

Jesus can be called the greatest Missionary, the ultimate Missionary, because one reason why he was sent to earth was to “bear witness to the truth.” (John 18:37) He was completely successful in proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom, and the benefits of his service are still available to us.

(John 18:37) . . .For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. . . .

(Luke 4:43) But he said to them: “Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.”

How is it that jw males can “take the lead” without being considered “leaders”?

What were the male Christians commissioned to do; be administrators or preach directly to people like Jesus did?

(Hebrews 13:17) . . .Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among YOU and be submissive, . . .

(Matthew 23:10) Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ.

Not to worry, the WTS using words such as “apparently” and “evidently” could and has added to the bible.

Did not Jesus train women, such as Martha and Mary, the sisters of Lazarus? Didn’t they also preach about Jesus and the kingdom? What did Jesus feel was important, having men that acted as “leaders” or “preachers”?

2, 3. (a) Why is there a pressing need for baptized

men to reach out? (b) What will be considered in

this article?

2 With more than seven million active Kingdom

proclaimers in over 100,000 congregations worldwide

today, there continues to be a need for men to

take the lead in spiritual matters. For instance,

Christian elders are greatly needed. Those who

reach out for this privilege of service are to be

commended, for they are “desirous of a fine work.”

—1 Tim. 3:1.

COMMENTS

In my day, men no longer wanted to be elders; to deal with the pressure; to be abused by other elders verbally and emotionally, which is when I left 10 years ago there were only 5 elders but 8 ex-elders, all who stepped down to get away from the pressure. Now they have to import elders from other states and cities.

7 million = only jws and mostly women, at least 63%. Men to take the lead in setting up the stage? Sound? Microphones? Handling territory cards? Help the elders record time slips? Handling the timer at the TMS?

For years a sister audited the congregation finances, because she was a financial officer at a bank….until the CO decided a male had to do it; and promptly screwed it up.

3 However, men do not automatically

qualify for privileges in the congregation.

Mere secular education or life experience

does not prepare a man for this kind of work.

To serve properly in such a capacity, a man

must qualify spiritually. More than abilities

or accomplishments, he must have spiritual

qualities. How can men in the congregation

be helped to qualify? “Everyone that is perfectly

instructed will be like his teacher,” said

Jesus. (Luke 6:40) In this article, we will consider

some of the ways in which the Master

Teacher, Jesus Christ, helped his disciples to

qualify for greater responsibility, and we will

see what lessons we can draw from what he

did.

COMMENTS

What are the qualifications? Did you know that meeting the national average of hours was the most frequent one that was used, 10 hours/month? Where in the bible is that? Can elders be heavy drinkers/alcoholics—not officially, but if a BOE is careful, they can conceal this flaw in a member. In one congregation the COBOE, had been an elder for 40 years and racked up 5 DUIs. It wasn’t until it made the newspapers, that he was removed.

How many theoretical qualifications have you seen? Actions speak louder than words.

What greater responsibility could there be than preaching about the kingdom?

“I Have Called You Friends”

4. How did Jesus show himself to be a real friend to

his disciples?

4 Jesus treated his disciples as friends,

not as inferiors. He spent time with them,

took them into his confidence, and ‘made

known to them all the things he had heard

from his Father.’ (Read John 15:15.) Imagine

how thrilled they were when Jesus answered

their question: “What will be the

sign of your presence and of the conclusion

of the system of things?” (Matt. 24:3, 4)

He also shared with his followers his private

thoughts and feelings. On the night of

his betrayal, for instance, Jesus took Peter,

James, and John into the garden of Gethsemane,

where he prayed earnestly from his

troubled heart. The three apostles may not

have heard what Jesus was saying in prayer,

but they must have sensed the gravity of the

occasion. (Mark 14:33-38) Think, too, of the

impact that the transfiguration must have

had earlier on the three. (Mark 9:2-8; 2 Pet.1:

16-18) The intimate friendship that Jesus

forged with his disciples was an anchor for

them as they later cared for weighty assignments.

COMMENTS

“Jesus treated his disciples as friends, not as inferiors”

How does the WTS view elders in relation to the rank and file?

CHIEFTAINS

*** w99 3/1 p.16 par.14***

Clearly, the chieftain has some responsibility among God’s people . In the outer courtyard, he sits in the porch of the East Gate. (Ezekiel 44:2, 3) This would indicate a position of oversight, similar to that of the older men in Israel who sat at the gate of the city and rendered judgment. (Ruth 4:1-12; Proverbs 22:22) Who among the other sheep hold offices of oversight today? Elders with an earthly hope who have been appointed by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) So the chieftain class is now being groomed with the prospect of later serving in an administrative capacity in the new world.

PRINCES

*** Close To Jehovah book cl chap. 16 p. 164 par. 16 ***

All of us have a responsibility to exercise justice, but elders in the Christian congregation especially have a responsibility in this regard. Notice the prophetic description of “princes,” or elders, recorded by Isaiah: “Look! A king will reign for righteousness itself; and as respects princes, they will rule as princes for justice itself.” (Isaiah 32:1)

DOUBLE HONOR

Why double honor to the elders? Does that mean that men who are not elders and women are not working hard in the congregation?

“he took them into his confidence”

Does this mean that the elders are to share confidential information with MS to groom them to be elders?

“he also shared with his followers his private thoughts and feelings”

Did Jesus share these with women? Do the men in the congregation do the same with the sisters?

“may not have” “must have sensed” “must have”—the bible does not say but we the WTS has inside information?

Are elders allowed to have intimate friendships with sisters; who is, other women who are not qualified spiritually per the WTS?

Do women have weighty assignments, are they qualified—Priscilla, Lydia, anointed women were to be in heaven as priests and kings with Jesus!!!

5. What are some ways in which Christian elders

can make themselves available to others?

5 Like Jesus, Christian elders today befriend

and help others. They cultivate a

warm, close relationship with their fellow

believers by taking time to show personal

interest in them. While elders recognize

the importance of confidentiality, they

are not secretive. Elders trust their brothers

and share with them Scriptural truths they

themselves have learned. By no means do elders

treat as inferior a ministerial servant

who may be comparatively young. Instead,

they think of him as a spiritual man with potential

who is performing a valuable service

in behalf of the congregation.

COMMENTS

I rarely had an elder even say hello to me but any but his inner circle of friends. Or the ones who say “how are you” as they quickly walk past you not bothering to hear your response. They barely know your name, how many children you have, their names, how long you have been a jw, etc. Is this showing a personal interest. I remember an older couple would had been on vacation for 2 weeks and were chastised by an elder for missing the meetings because he assumed the worst.

We rarely saw the inside of the homes of the elders despite having had them over for meals many times. Warm—how about the ones that approached you with a perceived sin conveyed by their wife and other close friend as if you were guilty until found innocent and then being peeved when it wasn’t true…warm?

Elders and confidentiality…means there is always one elder that always tells his wife and she tells others. Or the elders who share judicial information with elders not on the JC or elders in other congregations who figure if they do not use names, no one knows who they are talking about.

Do elders treat MS as inferiors…but they give them all the crap jobs and never thank them after all “we are all good-for-nothing slaves doing what we ought.” MS are certainly not worthy of “double honor.”

So who are elders told to befriend, males in the congregation, esp ms…

Did the elders in your congregation trust you?

Spiritual women doing valuable service—the preaching work, what Jesus came to do not be an administrator

“I Set the Pattern for You”

6, 7. Describe the example Jesus set for his disciples

and the effect this had on them.

6 Although Jesus’ disciples had appreciation

for spiritual things, their thinking was

sometimes influenced by their background

and culture. (Matt. 19:9, 10; Luke 9:46-48;

John 4:27) However, Jesus did not lecture or

threaten his disciples. He neither burdened

them with unreasonable demands nor advised

them to do one thing while he himself

did something else. Rather, Jesus taught

them by example.—Read John 13:15.

COMMENTS

Do elders or COs, or DOs, lecture or threaten the rank and file? Can you think of one situation in your case?

Burden with unreasonable demands; can you think of one?

Rules in the WTS

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/200009/1/Name-Some-Stupid-Organization-Congregation-Rules

Advised them to do one thing while he himself did something else

Elders with big houses, cars, take expensive vacations—yet tell congregation not to be materialistic

Can you think of one?

Jesus did not lecture and threaten—one COBOE in this area told the elders that now he was the COBOE, it was his way or the highway

7 What kind of model did Jesus leave for

his disciples? (1 Pet. 2:21) He kept his life

simple so that he could freely minister to

others. (Luke 9:58) Jesus was modest and always

based his teaching on the Scriptures.

(John 5:19; 17:14, 17) He was approachable

and kind. Love was the motivation for everything

he did. (Matt. 19:13-15; John 15:12) Jesus’

example had a positive influence on his

apostles. For instance, James did not cower

in the face of death but until he was executed,

loyally served God. (Acts 12:1, 2) John

faithfully followed in Jesus’ footsteps for

more than 60 years.—Rev.1:1, 2, 9.

COMMENTS

So do/did the elders in your congregation(s) keep a simple life; did they own a home (Jesus had no where to put his head); owned one set of clothes, and walked everywhere (no fancy cars).

Are elders approachable or so busy with administrative and “judicial” chores they put you off or if you complain to the co are told that the elders are busy doing important tasks.

8. What example do elders set for younger men

and others?

8 Elders who are self-sacrificing, humble,

and loving provide the kind of example that

younger men need. (1 Pet. 5:2, 3) Moreover,

elders who are exemplary in faith, in teaching,

in Christian living, and in the ministry

experience the satisfaction of knowing that

others can imitate their faith.—Heb.13:7.

COMMENTS

ARE ELDERS EXEMPLARY IN THE MINISTRY, THE DOOR TO DOOR WORK? When was the last time they worked with a sister or even a brother. I knew many that only went with their family…no training for anyone else. Did Jesus focus on his “fleshly” family? What happens to alcoholic elders, abusive elder husbands, etc. Are others blamed and they stay in their exalted positions? I know an elder that is on his 3 rd wife…yes, reproved but appointed after just 5 years, they are desperate for elders.

‘Giving Them Orders, Jesus Sent Them Forth’

9. How do we know that Jesus trained his disciples

to carry out the evangelizing work?

9 After zealously engaging in his ministry

for about two years, Jesus expanded the

preaching activity by sending out his 12

apostles to preach. First, though, he gave

them instructions. (Matt. 10:5-14) When

about to feed a crowd of thousands miraculously,

Jesus told his disciples how he wanted

them to organize the people and distribute

the food. (Luke 9:12-17) Clearly, then, Jesus

trained his disciples by giving them clear

and specific direction. This pattern of training,

coupled with the powerful influence of

holy spirit, later equipped the apostles to organize

the extensive preaching work that

took place in 33 C.E. and thereafter.

COMMENTS

HOW MANY YEARS DID JESUS HAVE, 3 ½ YEARS. What kind of training do the elders give the rank in file, do they set the example by going with them door to door, including women and children?

Do they follow the WTS DIRECTIONS?

*** w06 5/1 pp.18-19 par.6 Shepherds Who Are “Examples to the Flock”***

Loving Christian shepherds endeavor to show personal interest in each sheep in the congregation. (Philippians 2:4) One way shepherds become better acquainted with individual sheep is by working side by side with them in the public preaching work. Jesus often had his followers with him in the preaching work and used such occasions to give encouragement. (Luke 8:1) One experienced Christian shepherd says: “I find that one of the best ways to get to know and encourage a brother or a sister is by working with him or her in the field ministry.”

10, 11. In what ways can progressive training be

provided for new ones?

10 Today, spiritual instruction begins

when a man accepts a Bible study. We may

need to help him to read well. Our assistance

continues as we conduct Bible studies with

him. When he starts to attend Christian

meetings regularly, his spiritual training will

progress as he participates in the Theocratic

Ministry School , becomes an unbaptized

publisher, and so forth. After baptism, his

training can include such things as helping

with Kingdom Hall maintenance. In time, a

brother can be helped to see what he needs

to do to qualify as a ministerial servant.

COMMENTS

I was in a congregation where 2 men were appointed as ms, neither could read and never did to the day they died. They memorized what the elders had them say on the platform, their talks were composed by elders. Neither one would learn to read, too prideful.

11 When giving a baptized brother an assignment,

an elder gladly explains the relevant

organizational procedures and provides

needed instruction. The brother being

trained must understand what is expected of

him. If he is struggling with what he is asked

to do, a loving elder does not quickly conclude

that he is not qualified. Rather, the elder

kindly points out the specific areas of

concern and reviews the goals and procedures.

Seeing men respond positively to

such efforts and thus experience the joy that

comes from serving others is a source of

happiness to the elders.—Acts 20:35.

COMMENTS

So did Jesus say his followers would be known by their organizational procedures? What did he say to the religious administrators of his time? Did Jesus stress love or rules?

Matthew 15:9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands

of men as doctrines.’ ”

John 13:34 I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another. 35 By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.” (not be known as great administrators)

Do elders see themselves as “servants” or “princes”?

j

“The One Listening to Counsel Is Wise”

12. What made Jesus’ counsel effective?

12 Jesus trained his disciples by providing

personal counsel tailored to their needs. For

example, he rebuked James and John for

wanting to call down fire from heaven on

some Samaritans who had not received him.

(Luke 9:52-55) When the mother of James

and John approached Jesus on their behalf

to ask that they be granted favored positions

in the Kingdom, Jesus addressed the brothers

directly, saying: “This sitting down at my

right hand and at my left is not mine to give,

but it belongs to those for whom it has been

prepared by my Father.” (Matt. 20:20-23) At

all times, Jesus gave counsel that was clear,

practical, and solidly based on godly principles.

He taught his disciples to reason on

such principles. (Matt. 17:24-27) Jesus also

recognized the limitations of his followers

and did not expect perfection from them.

His counsel was motivated by genuine love.

—John 13:1.

COMMENTS

Of course the elders never suck up to the CO to get the “privilege” of giving main talks at the assemblies and conventions, not.

Who is more likely to be appointed someone who came into the WTS as an adult or an elder’s son?

So what was the “godly principle” that led to brothers not being able to wear anything but white shirts? When we left only 10 years ago, the last congregation gave up this edict. Are brothers still required to wear white shirts for assemblies and conventions?

Remember the COBOE that said it was his way or the highway, where was the love in that statement?

13, 14. (a) Who needs counsel? (b) Give examples

of what personal counsel an elder may offer to

someone who is not progressing spiritually.

13 Every man who reaches out for responsibility

in the Christian congregation needs

counsel or Scriptural advice at one time or

another. “The one listening to counsel is

wise,” states Proverbs 12:15. “I found that

my biggest challenge was dealing with my

own imperfections,” says one young brother.

“The advice of an elder put this into proper

perspective for me.”

COMMENTS

What if the counsel is not scripturally based? Or is one elder’s personal opinion? I encountered several congregations where the elders lied regularly to the rank and file supposedly to protect God’s reputation, but rather it was the own (CYA).

14 If elders observe that some questionable

conduct is retarding a man’s spiritual

progress, they take the initiative to readjust

him in a spirit of mildness. (Gal. 6:1) At

times, counsel is needed because of some

personality trait. If a brother seems somewhat

self-sparing, for example, an elder may

find it helpful to point out that Jesus was a

zealous Kingdom proclaimer who commissioned

his followers to make disciples. (Matt. 28:19, 20;

Luke 8:1) If a brother appears ambitious,

an elder might show him how Jesus

helped His disciples to see the dangers of

seeking prominence. (Luke 22:24-27) What

if a brother has a tendency to be unforgiving?

The illustration of the slave who refused

to forgive a small debt even though

he himself had been forgiven much more

would make a powerful point. (Matt. 18:21-35)

When counsel is needed, it is good for

the elders to provide it at the earliest opportunity.—

Read Proverbs 27:9.

COMMENTS

“questionable conduct” what would that be: pornography, masturbation,

or not making the unscriptural 10-hour requirement.= self-sparing

ambitious, unforgiving===I can think of ten elders that were ambitious and unforgiving and there were no elders “helping” because they were just as bad.

Earliest opportunity—waiting 40 years to counsel an alcoholic PO

“Be Training Yourself”

15. How can a man’s family help him to serve others?

15 The elders take the lead in training men

to reach out, but others can support their efforts. For

instance, a man’s family can and

should help him to reach out. And if he already

is an elder, he will benefit from the

support of a loving wife and unselfish children.

Their willingness to share him with

the congregation is essential if he is to succeed

in shouldering his responsibility. Their

self-sacrificing spirit brings him joy and is

greatly appreciated by others.—Prov. 15:20;

31:10, 23.

COMMENTS

Family help by not expecting their father to spend time with them, train them, doing all the home duties inside and out. I know several elder’s families where the wife and children are all out of the organization due to the years of neglect by the father/husband.

16. (a) The primary responsibility to reach out

rests with whom? (b) How can a man reach out for

privileges in the congregation?

16 Although others can help and support

him, the primary responsibility for reaching

out rests with the man himself. (Read Galatians

6:5.) Of course, a brother does not

have to be a ministerial servant or an elder

in order to help others and have a full

share in the ministry. However, reaching

out for privileges in the congregation does

mean striving to meet the qualifications set

out in the Scriptures. (1 Tim. 3:1-13; Titus

1:5-9; 1 Pet. 5:1-3) So if a man desires

to serve as a ministerial servant or an

elder but has not yet been appointed to

be one, he should give attention to areas

where he needs to make spiritual advancement.

This calls for regular Bible reading, diligent

personal study, serious meditation,

heartfelt prayer, and zealous participation in

the Christian ministry. In such ways, he can

personally apply Paul’s counsel to Timothy:

“Be training yourself with godly devotion as

your aim.”—1 Tim. 4:7.

COMMENTS

“Of course, a brother does not

have to be a ministerial servant or an elder

in order to help others and have a full

share in the ministry.”

Many ex-elders reason this way seeing that preaching was the mission of Jesus not administrating. They can do what Jesus wanted without being elders. Jesus had no expectations of being a king or a priest until he returned to heaven not like the elders to day who are told that they are “princes” and will judge people on earth at JCs.

“This calls for regular Bible reading, diligent

personal study, serious meditation,

heartfelt prayer, and zealous participation in

the Christian ministry.”

This is expected of all Christians, even women who will never be appointed elders or MS. How many people are jws because a sister called on their door rather than men?

Why is teaching from the platform more important than teaching an individual one-on-one?

Men and women in the first century must have demonstrated the exact same qualifications to be anointed. Why then are women viewed as second class Christians?

(Galatians 3:26-29) 26 YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.

What training can you provide your Bible student as

he seeks to make progress?

17, 18. What can a baptized brother do if anxiety,

feelings of inadequacy, or a lack of motivation holds

him back?

17 But what if a man is not reaching out because

of anxiety or feelings of inadequacy?

He would do well to consider how much Jehovah

God and Jesus Christ do for us. Indeed,

Jehovah “daily carries the load for us.”

(Ps. 68:19) So our heavenly Father can help a

brother to take on responsibility in the congregation.

A brother who is not serving as a

ministerial servant or an elder will also find it

beneficial to consider the fact that there is a

great need for mature men to accept privileges

of service in God’s organization. Reflecting

on such points may move a brother

to put forth effort to overcome negative feelings.

He can pray for holy spirit, bearing in

mind that its fruitage includes peace and

self-control—qualities needed to dispel anxiety

or feelings of inadequacy. (Luke 11:13;

Gal. 5:22, 23) And one can be fully confident

that Jehovah blesses all who reach out with a

proper motive.

COMMENTS

Do men in the congregation feel inadequate or are made to feel inadequate? I know one brother that was made an MS but was told by one elder that as long as that elder lived, this MS would never be an elder, disliking him personally. Even in another congregation, this elder directs the previous BOE not to appoint this brother. So many ex-elders and MS have experienced the emotional and spiritual abuse in so many congregations.

Who judges what is a proper motive? Can elders read hearts? How is it that alcoholics, pedophiles, and wife abusers get appointed?

18 Could it be that a lack of motivation is

preventing a baptized man from reaching

out? What can help a brother who lacks the

desire to serve? The apostle Paul wrote:

“[God], for the sake of his good pleasure, is

acting within you in order for you both to

will and to act.” (Phil. 2:13) The desire to

serve is God-given, and Jehovah’s spirit can

strengthen a person to render sacred service.

(Phil. 4:13) Moreover, a Christian can pray

that God will make him do what is right.

—Ps. 25:4, 5.

COMMENTS

Lack of motivation—once an brother I knew became an elder, he experienced the abuse purposely levied against new elders to get them in shape. He was told that the BOE was guided by the elder’s manual, not the Bible (no kidding). This was the same elder that held up the WT at the study and asked, “what are our beliefs based on”?

Or the ex-Bethelite CO who came in and removed 20 elders who were in their 60’s and 70’s who never had said “how high” when the WTS said “jump.”

19. Of what does the raising up of “seven shepherds,

yes, eight dukes” assure us?

19 Jehovah blesses the efforts of older men

to train others. His blessing is also experienced

by those who respond and reach out

for privileges in the congregation. The Scriptures

assure us that among God’s people

“seven shepherds, yes, eight dukes”—the

required number of capable men—will be

raised up to take the lead in Jehovah’s organization.

(Mic. 5:5)What a blessing it is that

so many Christian men are being trained

and are humbly reaching out for privileges

of service to Jehovah’s praise!

COMMENTS

So God does not bless non-MS and non-elders, women and children?

How can men show that they are reaching out?

How Would You Answer?

How did Jesus help his disciples to

qualify for greater responsibility?

How can elders imitate Jesus as

they help men in the congregation

to take the lead?

What part does a man’s family play

in helping him to reach out?

What can a man himself do to reach

out for privileges?

CONCLUDING COMMENTS

Sorry, it has been getting harder to swallow this. I was an elder’s wife for many years and saw the abuse.

NEXT WEEK, IS HE A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR YOU OR A WARNING? (How to learn from an OT non-Christian)

Love, Blondie

N.drew

Thank you. Well done.

jwfacts

What are the qualifications? Did you know that meeting the national average of hours was the most frequent one that was used, 10 hours/month? Where in the bible is that?

Good Point. That and being a good public speaker are considered more important than Bible criteria.

blondie

Thanks N.drew.

jwfacts, based on my experience, being a good public speaker was not a requirement around here. We once had 5 public speakers in a row from one congregation, they all stunk and so badly that the COBOE chewed out the elder who scheduled the speakers. One elder from another congregation said that Disneyworld was the closest thing to God's kingdom. We were lucky if one out of 15 didn't put people to sleep.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Thanks Blondie!

Funny how the alarm bells go off now that I've been away from the poison for a few months. Last sentance in para. 1:

When he returned to heaven in 33 C.E., Jesus left behind the foundation of a remarkable congregation that would quickly number into the thousands.

Of course they couldn't say that it quickly numbered into the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands. That would blow 144,000 holes in their "anointed remnant" false teaching. It's pathetic the way the Brooklyn overlords ignore the many thousands of early Christian martyrs.

wannabefree

The conductor asked the audience in my hall ...

Elder Conductor: What is the first thing the elders look at to identify a spiritual man?

Sister in audience: Their zeal for the ministry?

Elder Conductor: Yes, that is true, their zeal, their visibility in the ministry, and their productivity ... the first thing we do is look at their publisher card, we refer to it a number of times when identifiying a spiritual man.

blondie

Yes, they have a way to explain it away:

*** w72 7/1 pp. 415-416 Questions From Readers ***

Large numbers of Christians are said to have been put to death during the Roman persecution in the first few centuries of the Common Era. How, then, is it possible for thousands in this century to have been called to become part of the body of Christ composed of only 144,000 persons?—U.S.A.There are historical indications that many Christians were bitterly persecuted, even killed, in the first few centuries. However, it should be remembered that, in itself, a martyr’s death did not give a person merit before Jehovah God nor did it guarantee membership in the heavenly kingdom. Many persons, even in recent times, have been willing to die for a cause, religious or otherwise. A person’s claiming to be a Christian and even dying for his belief does not in itself mean that he is an approved servant of Jehovah God. As the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians: “If I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body, that I may boast, but do not have love, I am not profited at all.” (1 Cor. 13:3) It is not death, but faithfulness to the very death, that determines whether an individual will receive “the crown of life.”—Rev. 2:10.

Thus the fact that today there is still a remnant of the 144,000 on earth would show that down to this twentieth century fewer than 144,000 finished their earthly course in faithfulness.

While some persons may be inclined to think that more persons must surely have been involved even as far back as the early centuries of the Common Era, actual proof to this effect is completely lacking. Today it is impossible even to establish how many persons were killed, much less the number of those who proved faithful to death. “We have practically but few facts to go upon,” writes Frederick John Foakes-Jackson in the book HistoryofChristianityintheLightofModernKnowledge. He further states: “The testimony to the persecution by Nero is recorded by two Roman historians, Tacitus and Suetonius, both of whom were very young when it occurred, and wrote in mature life. There is no contemporary Christian document describing it, though it may be alluded to in the book of Revelation. . . . Tertullian at the end of the second century is our authority that Nero and Domitian, because they were the two worst emperors in the first centuries, persecuted the Christians.” Early in the third century C.E., Origen (a Christian writer and teacher) observed: “There have been but a few now and again, easily counted, who have died for the Christian religion.”

Much that has been written about Christian martyrs is embellished by tradition and therefore unreliable. For example, the martyrdom of Polycarp of the second century C.E. is described in Fox’sBookofMartyrs as follows: “He was . . . bound to a stake, and the faggots with which he was surrounded set on fire, but when it became so hot that the soldiers were compelled to retire, he continued praying and singing praises to God for a long time. The flames raged with great violence, but still his body remained unconsumed, and shone like burnished gold. It is also said, that a grateful odour like that of myrrh, arose from the fire, which so much astonished the spectators, that many of them were by that means converted to Christianity. His executioners finding it impossible to put him to death by fire, thrust a spear into his side, from which the blood flowed in such a quantity, as to extinguish the flame. His body was then consumed to ashes, by order of the proconsul lest his followers should make it an object of adoration.”

Whatever the source of Fox’s information, manifestly little of this account is truly historical. Nevertheless, if the allusion to the adoration of the remains of Polycarp is to be viewed as indicating the existence of relic worship among professed Christians of the second century C.E., this would be additional evidence that many at that time were not faithful worshipers of Jehovah God. Christians were under command to “worship God,” not relics. (Rev. 19:10) In fact, idolaters are among those specifically named in the Scriptures as unfit to inherit the Kingdom.—1 Cor. 6:9, 10.

Ding

When the organization tries to have elders run everyone's life in the congregation, it wears out the conscientious elders and puffs up the power-hungry ones.

Bubblegum Apotheosis

Blondie, is this a situation, only felt in the United States, or does this hit even the close knitt cultures? Attending meetings, it took a few months

before a JW elder broke away from 'busy work', to welcome a newbie. The warm and loving friendships and elders, is more like "Charlie the Unicorn's adventure". Idon't think there is anyone at this site, who has not felt the cold calloused, glares of the unapproachable holy elders. It's ok to invite

them, but few have time to allow their busy wives to display hospitality, or reach out to new ones. It's another great concept in the print, but you can expect , you will hear from a elder, when he is cold calling your house, with his new Amway book. There are good men, but a bunch are still stinkers!

Another side point, it all goes back to "field circus productivity, being visible," yet, most field circus falls into those with idle hands. There is a term "Contra freeloading", it's a socio-economic term, developed when rats and monkeys preferred to work for their food, than receive a handout. The interpretation, people are willing to accept their field service hours, without working for them. Apostates, Ex-JWs are labeled "Sluggish Slave" for their hatred of field service (what we hear at meetings), how can those who mock Jehovah with useless, heartless service, accuse others of being sluggish? I don't get it!

breakfast of champions

Thanks for the summary/comments.

This stuff is just so dumb.

If there is a problem with a brother's "numbers," just fudge them like the society does for the WWW. Add a proverbial "Hawaii" to the brother's "United States" field service report and all is well! Look at that increase!

Need visibility but still hung over from Friday night? Pre-arrange a car group of willing friends, show up at the meeting for service, and head directly to Starbucks!

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-29-2012 WT Study (TRAIN OTHERS)

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