Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-29-2012 WT Study (TRAIN OTHERS)

by blondie 24 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  WTWizard

  I will start by asking the question Jehovah hates so much since he expects people to give up everything for themselves in exchange for something for him: What's in it for me? If Jehovah has such a problem with my asking that question that he is going to have a snotty attitude, he doesn't deserve my service at all.

  Now, what is in it for me if I decide to become a hounder? First, I must give up everything I enjoy. True, you have to do that as a regular witless. But, to become a hounder, you are going to be an example. You have one song you enjoy listening to that is slightly offensive, as a regular witless you might be able to hide it. As a prospective hounder, everyone will be looking for it and you had better not try and hide it with a "clean-label" file. Your field circus has to be at least 10 hours a month--while they are watching, you won't be able to fake it either. Your employment needs to be super clean as well--along with everything else.

  Once there, you will have to maintain everything. True, now you can do fake field circus. But everything else stays the same. Additionally, you will be woken up at 3 in the morning with a "problem". You are accountable if the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger gives bad instructions and your congregation is not responding. You are responsible for making up donation shortfalls. You will be giving more talks, including #1 talks and public talks, in the congregation. You will be attending extra meetings, some runnig more than 45 minutes after the regular boasting session and others during the afternoon and evenings when no boasting sessions are held.

  And for what? There is no extra reward after Armageddon--even if it did happen, you would have to take the lead in gathering the flock. Unless you wish to ruin lives including molesting children with the view of ruining their lives, there is absolutely nothing to gain. No salary, no special liberties, no nothing. Just the accountability.
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  undercover

  Much that has been written about Christian martyrs is embellished by tradition and therefore unreliable. For example, the martyrdom of Polycarp of the second century C.E. is described in Fox’sBookofMartyrs as follows: “He was . . . bound to a stake, and the faggots with which he was surrounded set on fire, but when it became so hot that the soldiers were compelled to retire, he continued praying and singing praises to God for a long time. The flames raged with great violence, but still his body remained unconsumed, and shone like burnished gold. It is also said, that a grateful odour like that of myrrh, arose from the fire, which so much astonished the spectators, that many of them were by that means converted to Christianity. His executioners finding it impossible to put him to death by fire, thrust a spear into his side, from which the blood flowed in such a quantity, as to extinguish the flame. His body was then consumed to ashes, by order of the proconsul lest his followers should make it an object of adoration.”

  Whatever the source of Fox’s information, manifestly little of this account is truly historical. Nevertheless, if the allusion to the adoration of the remains of Polycarp is to be viewed as indicating the existence of relic worship among professed Christians of the second century C.E., this would be additional evidence that many at that time were not faithful worshipers of Jehovah God.

  Veering slightly off topic but I have to comment on Blondie's other WT quote...

  "Much that has been written about Christian martyrs is embellished by tradition and therefore unreliable"... Yea, like the cruxificition of the man Jesus, who died only to be raised from the dead three days later. No embellishing there...

  They go on in this article to belittle the account of martyrdom of Polycarp as fanciful conjecture, claimly that 'little of this account is truly historical'. True, the account reads like fiction and defies science and logic. I can agree with that. Yet, while they belittle this account, they, at the same time, accept the account of the life and death of Jesus, which also reads like fiction and defies science and logic. If supernatural forces were at work when Jesus died, why couldn't they have been at work when Polycarp died? How do they know which is accurate and which is embellishment?

  Of course the real answer is they twist and misquote whatever they want whenever they want in order to preserve their status as god's channel and to prop up their decaying doctrine, hoping to fool the ignorant and gullible.
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  No Room For George

  This article reminded me of something I read about a BGF prison gang member testifying on behalf of a couple Aryan Brotherhood members who were on trial for the murder of two DC Blacks prison gang members. The BGF basically laid the fault on the DC Blacks as they initiated it. His words were that, "only the young and the foolish and the uninitiated would start something like that in prison."

  That's the same way I feel about young brothers reaching out in the congregation. Although it can still be said that only the young, foolish, and inexperienced reach out for privileges in the congregation, plenty of young brothers have wised up to the foolishness that comes with the territory of reaching out for and becoming an elder, or Ministerial Servant. This is especially so for those who've had relatives that served the congregation in such a capacity, because the young ones coming up have seen firsthand what's involved and they wisely say, "screw that."

  There's times I've sat in on elder meetings and said to myself, "how the heck did I end up in this nonsense? Oh yeah, that's right, the idiot sitting next to me encouraged me to reach out." Had I remained a Ministerial Servant, there's a good chance that I wouldn't have ended up on this message board, but being elder forces one to examine doctrines and policy on a level that that dictates personal honesty, and only the mentally lazy, self willed, or those prone to being dishonest with themselves would come to the incorrect conclusion that everything the WT says is right, is right. This is especially cumbersome when expected to enforce policies that you disagree with.

  We've got a couple ex-elders in our congregation, and one of them I overheard say to another brother that he's thankful he doesn't have to go to elder meetings any longer. We've got another brother who's told us that he absolutely wants nothing to do with being a Ministerial Servant. When his name comes up in the elder meeting prior to the CO visit to discuss any brothers worth recommending, the COBOE mentions his name and then says, "well we all know his situation, so we can just move on." My father relayed to me a 2nd-hand conversation relayed to him about a brother who turned down being appointed as an elder. The individual replied to the two brothers asking him about being an elder, "You think I want to sit in extra meetings arguing with you?"

  On the subject of time cards, our body recommended a brother recently, and the CO shot that boy down like he was in a No Flight Zone prior to the second Iraq war. The reasoning being was that when he looked at the brother's card, he felt that the brother's time wasn't diversified enough. The brother is averaging multiple Bible studies and well recieved and respected within the congregation, but because at least one of those studies is his family study, the hours studying with his family shouldn't be counted. The thing that surprised me the most about this situation is, and I'm sure it's going to surprise the CO too when he gets wind of it, if he hasn't already, is that by his shooting this brother down, he's created distrust and animosity on the elder body. Some brothers have begun to express privately with brothers they trust that somebody said something negative about up and coming brother to the CO. The body is starting to turn into something that resembles the TV Show, Survivor with all the intrigue, alliances, badmouthing, and resentment. It's going to be interesting how all of this plays out in the next few months.
• 

  00DAD

  BLONDIE : How is it that jw males can “take the lead” without being considered “leaders”?

  • • (Hebrews 13:17) Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among YOU and be submissive, . . .
    • (Matthew 23:10) Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ.

  Yet one more example of the inconsistencies of the Bible. Or course the WT slant is that things like these "only appear" to be contradictions! There are no contradictions in the Bible, only YOUR misunderstanding!

  Yeah right! Whatever ...

  It's becoming more and more obvious that most of what can be considered Christianity is a result of the writings of Paul which, like many a Hollywood movie, are loosely "based on a True Story"; in this case, what he'd seen and heard about Jesus of Nazareth.
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  ziddina

  OOOO, thank you, Blondie!!

  

  Marking to read later...
• 

  00DAD

  BLONDIE: "Do men in the congregation feel inadequate or are [they] made to feel inadequate? "

  NRFG: "... at least one of those studies is his family study, the hours studying with his family shouldn't be counted."

  I remember one particular elders meeting where the same thinking behind NRFG's comment was directed at ME by my fellow elders! Evidently they (or at least some of them) had had a "private meeting" without me and decided that even though I had served without blemish for 14 or 15 years, and even though both of my sons were still "In the Truth" even though every single other elder had a child that had been left the organization, and even though I did maintain the highly touted "National Average TM ", it wasn't good enough because they figured that 3 or 4 hours of my "Field Service" every month was studying with my own children so it didn't count!

  "Brother 00DAD, you need to do more if you want to maintain your privileges of service!"

  I remember feeling so inadequate and unappreciated, and also so frustrated that they had a private meeting about me without me and then ganged up on me during an official "Elders' Meeting"!

  Psalm 133:1 - Look! How good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!

  And yet, because I was still under the mistaken notion that this was "God's Organization" that I should rearrange my entire life to live up to ridiculous, unscriptural standards set by a bunch of guys that never had children and don't have real jobs and which standards are then re-interpreted by a local committee of men comprised of a ditch-digger, an electrician, an ex-boxer that never graduated high school, a low-level clerk and an out of work salesman!

  Yeah, no matter how hard I worked, it was never enough!
• 

  ziddina

  I've observed that hypocrisy is so deeply ingrained into the Watchtower Corporation, that one has to "reverse" every one of their claims to get the real picture of what is going on within their organization....

  Like so...

  [paragraph 5] "Like Jesus, Christian elders today befriend and help others. They cultivate a warm, close relationship with their fellow believers by taking time to show personal interest in them. While elders recognize the importance of confidentiality, they are not secretive. Elders trust their brothers and share with them Scriptural truths they themselves have learned. By no means do elders treat as inferior a ministerial servant who may be comparatively young. Instead, they think of him as a spiritual man with potential who is performing a valuable service in behalf of the congregation. ..."

  First claim: " Christian elders today befriend and help others..."

  Reality? Christian elders are clique-ish and rarely pay any attention to most of the congregation's members. They prefer to associate with fellow elders and their wives...

  Second claim: "They cultivate a warm, close relationship with their fellow believers by taking time to show personal interest in them..."

  Reality? They only show up on your doorstep if the CO is coming and they need to plump up numbers to avoid a tongue-lashing from him, or if they've heard an unsavory rumor about you that might lead to a Judicial Committee... [their lives must be SO boring without the occasional "judicial committee"...]

  Third claim: "While elders recognize the importance of confidentiality, they are not secretive...."

  Reality? Well, they tell their WIVES everything... But when it comes to questionable practices like judicial committees, they're more secretive than the CIA - especially when holding a "kangaroo court". And when it comes to pedophiles in the congregation, they're as silent as - well, as accomplices after-the-fact...

  Fourth claim: "Elders trust their brothers and share with them Scriptural truths they themselves have learned..."

  Reality? Most elders wouldn't trust the other brothers in the congregation with the field-service slips, let alone with any real power. Brothers who actually DO study the bible are threatening to most elders, who attempt to keep such men out of positions of authority.

  Fifth claim: "elders [do not] treat as inferior a ministerial servant who may be comparatively young...."

  Reality? Depends on who he's related to... And how willing he seems, to become a REAL "company" man...

  Sixth claim: "Instead, they think of him as a spiritual man with potential who is performing a valuable service in behalf of the congregation..."

  Reality? Depends on how many hours he's turning in, on a monthly basis. Are his "numbers" up to standards?? Who CARES if he's well-read and has studied the bible extensively, or has a kind, loving nature...

  Zid
• 

  Simon Morley

  Second claim: "They cultivate a warm, close relationship with their fellow believers by taking time to show personal interest in them..."

  Hardly, I bumped into an elder from the same BOE that I was on before I left two years ago. After the "when are you coming back, you are missed, we this, we that..." routine and pious look of concern I reminded him that I told him personally that I was sick of the the gossip, slander and hyocrisy on the BOE and others and rampant amongst the CO/DO clan. No wonder these three things are endemic amongst the witnesses, the so called leadership smacks of duplicity. he just nodded and gave me one of those blank vacuous stares that witnesses are notorious for when I asked "have things improved?"

  It is so sad that many of the well meaning elders (many of you are here now) who trully tried to be good shepherds ended up stepping away or leaving completely. I reminded him that he was one who was instrumental in my departure as I went out on a limb time after time, he was one of many at the other end trying to cut it off. I had to remind him that in 2009 I had a serious ulcer that resulted in being hospitalized, sleeping problems and ailments that were wearing me down - all because gossip, slander and hypocrisy were out of hand/control and not dealt with in the same way fornication and adultery were. Witnesses are notorious for talking about one another but rarely talk to one another when they have a problem.

  "So how are you now? he replied, "Never better!" I responded and told him I put it down to good prayer habits, better bible reading and following such admonishment found in Proverbs that states "shrewd is the one that has seen the calamity and proceeds to conceal himself" I don't need that shit in my life and especially my family that bore the brunt of these ill mannered, unloving, hurtful people when I was not arround or my back was turned. Anyway, rant over....

  Thanks Blondie you do an incredible job in being extremely objective on most subjective material found in the WT, but this one made my blood boil!!
• 

  ziddina

  "Witnesses are notorious for talking about one another but rarely talk to one another when they have a problem. ...." Simon Morley

  Excellent observation, Simon Morley. You put that very concisely...

  May I use it??? Please???

  Zid
• 

  Ding

  Somehow every WT lesson boils down to, "Jehovah wants you to obey the GB and WTS authority structure without question."

  Is that REALLY the message preached by Jesus and the apostles?