Christianity is a longing for truth. The truth is I could be you and you could be me. The ideal world has everyone treating each other as if each person could share the judgement of any other. Combine that with a minding one's own business and there would be no evil against another, would there? If the whole world was like that there would be no place for the wicked one who does damage. And then humanity could aspire to the control of the environment, internal and external. Try to let that power loose on this world. We can't have it because people are selfish.
This Made Me So Thankful I am No Longer A Christian
by cofty 126 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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tec
Please may reason save us from the savagery of the world's "great" religions!
Love others as yourself.
Forgive.
Show mercy.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Give to anyone who asks of you.
Do not judge.
Turn the other cheek.
Love one another as I (Christ) have loved you.
Lay down your lives for one another.
Give to the poor. Feed the hungry. Clothe the naked.
Savage indeed!
Now on the other hand, what has been done in the name of "Christ or of God" (though really it has all been done in the name of man, greed, power, land, etc)... many of these things have indeed been savage. Wars, killing, rape, oppression, torture, shunning, lack of mercy, judgment and condemnation, turning a blind eye instead of turning the other cheek.
So I hear where you are coming from. But these people did not follow Christ. They followed themselves, and those who claimed to represent God and Christ. (seating themselves in the seat of Christ ring a bell?)
Peace,
Tammy
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Sulla
Twitch, I think there is a reason why, when a Homo Erectus died, they threw the body on a trash pile and, when a Homo Sapiens died, they buried him with flowers. There really is something special about the death of humans and, for that matter, their suffering. If not, then it doesn't matter at all whether cofty has cancer or my grandfather died. I think both things matter a great deal.
Cofty, it was a terrible gift, those hours. I live about an hour and a half from his house. When I got the call that he was very near death I left to be with him. You may scoff at the idea, but I prayed that I would make it in time. Bad as the experience was, is it possible to have desired anything else? You just want to share in the suffering, experience it in some way with him. Why? I don't know. You see a man in the last minutes of a long life, you believe something more than that is happening, I guess.
So it was a gift. I wouldn't have it taken away. It hurt like hell and still does. But you come out of such an experience changed, which is grace, no doubt.
Did the old man suffer that way to bring me grace? Was his suffering a chance for God to keep him from wanting to sin? Teach some sort of lesson? Of course not; such ideas are as offensive to me as they are to you. But the whole thing was painful and mysterious and frightening and holy. I don't think I can explain it.
I think grace very seldom comes in the form of angels stopping by to give you a wet kiss. I think God's grace comes to everybody, eventually. And when it comes, it's going to hurt.
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Twitch
Twitch, I think there is a reason why, when a Homo Erectus died, they threw the body on a trash pile and, when a Homo Sapiens died, they buried him with flowers. There really is something special about the death of humans and, for that matter, their suffering. If not, then it doesn't matter at all whether cofty has cancer or my grandfather died. I think both things matter a great deal.
Well, one might think that a more evolved human being would realize the loss in death and decorate their loved ones' grave in remembrance of their life and good times, not their suffering and passing.
As for death and suffering being special, I don't see it other than it being the opposite of life and contentment. I value the latter personally. Life and the possibilities it offers is special and matters a great deal.
But that's just my take on the subject.
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steve2
Love others as yourself.
Forgive.
Show mercy.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Give to anyone who asks of you.
Do not judge.
etc etc
Oh ye with such conveniently gnat-like memories...stand back and look at the full message. If only the "god" who spoke these lovingly wise words had lived them by example not just in Jesus's day but in the darkened coridors of the Old Testament in which he ordered genocidal mowing down of entire peoples, including old men and women and children and babies.
I find it rich to the point of astonishment that the "god" who speaks with such lovy-dovy sentiments himself ordered the spilling of so much human blood for his name's sake. Suicide bombers have nothing of the scale of destructiveness carried out in the Old Testament under "divine" orders. Genocide is as much a part of the Old Testament as slavery and misogyny is of the New Testament. Christians, to defend their primitive beleifs, need to be studiously selective in their application of user-friendly scripture.Love one another. Show mercy...blah,blah, blah
Defending the primitive scare-mongering of long-dead people is a doomed task. For every "Love one another" you'll find - if you open your eyes - a thunderous raging violent vomiting of "righteous" indignation. And just as modern angry violent humans can find every conceivable justification for their rage, so too proponents of the "one true God" can find ample justification for the valleys filled with blood spilt in the name of that God.
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tec
Steve, since Christ is the Truth, and the image of God... and we see God if we look at Christ... then I'll go with his representation, and let all the other versions of God match up with what His image taught... or dismiss them as NOT being truth. Doesn't make sense to dismiss or override Christ in favor of other people or writings that have been misunderstood, misinterpreted, mistranslated, and even lied about. But yeah, there's ample stuff in the bible that could allow people to justify all the things I agreed with you about what religions do. But there is not ample stuff in the teachings and e x ample of Christ to form those kinds of justification.
Christ is the One I follow. Should a christian not belong to and follow Christ?
Peace,
Tammy
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steve2
Christ is the One I follow. Should a christian not belong to and follow Christ?
Tammy, peace to you too. Your belief is neither more nor less sincere than those who believe very differently than you. Ultimately, just as Christians are fond of saying "It's a personal choice" I say the same to the myriad Christian groups and individuals who disagree so sincerely and fervently with one another let alone with those who belong to non-Christian" religions or to no religion.
I prefer to tear apart specious reasoning where ever it is found. I amopen to having my thinking torn apart by the same reasoning - and over the years, I've had my reasoning torn apart and modified - some times drastically. I have no holy set of beliefs to defend and I have no spiritual experience that renders useless the well marshalled argmuents of others.
It just so happens that in this thread its the shonky thinking of why "god"allows suffering (a baited questionifever there were one. I know. I know. I know. Each group and almost each believer, has their own well paced explanation to the ensnaring question. It's the bait that has hooked many an interested person confronted by JWs. One daren't utter this question within earshot of a "true" believer because then the Tammy Wynetteisms flow like days-old soured milk. I can tolerate people's belief just like people tolerate mine. I cannot however tolerate people's well tapestried explanations and defenses ofthose beliefs when reason and logic have been so thoroughly parked outside the building when they belong in the structure and ambience of the building itself. Sell me fresh milkabd by taste and smellI'll know it's fresh. Sell me soured milk and I'll know by offensive taste and smell that it's from the "holy"Bible. If Jesus were true, he would deserve far better than the motley little scratched stories we have adoringly called the Bible.
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Qcmbr
Faith can give strength, hope, and comfort to get through our suffering.
Tec - do you think that this validates your belief? How do you square this statement as having any value if you realise that faith in Thor is likely to have eased many a Vikings passage through death? If you believe faith has a positive effect on suffering, you admit that faiths effect is disconnected with truth and you still fail to provide a moral reason for suffering. When you talk about 'your Christ ' you openly admit that you find the biblical description of 'Christ ' to be repulsive to you in certain places and so you are simply making up a modern Christ that meets your sensibilities. A Christian descendent of yours in a few hundred years will look upon our relatively vulgar society , including you, and will conclude that we ( you )never believed in Christ since her Christ is firmly committed to non- violence and therefore couldn't possibly have acquiesced to solving the worlds problems by divinely appointed violence ergo that scriptural account can be ignored and crucifixion was just a barbaric lie. Whitewashing the NT account of Jesus to match your Christ as flower power hippy is intellectual empty. Your Christ is purely a construct and a poor one at that.
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designs
Band- Viktor Frankl, one of my favorites in college
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soft+gentle
I love Viktor Frankl's philosophy, the little that I have read that is. You got to study him in college designs - bravo