transhuman68, yep acknowledged. That core naive view has been overriden by modern-day readings providing "justification"for over-bloated doctrines such as the sanctity of "god's name" etc.
This Made Me So Thankful I am No Longer A Christian
by cofty 126 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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nugget
Has Piper ever had cancer? Cancer is not a gift certainly not one that any loving person would inflict on another. It is tragic that there are people who will read this and feel guilty because they are failing to appreciate what is happening to them and failure to get well will be because of their lack of faith. His sentiment is an insult to anyone who has had to address the facts of the condition in their lives.
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THE GLADIATOR
Not many Christians hold such an extreme view. They accept that phycical life in a body with feeling can bring both pleasure and pain.
I thought that BTS explained his position well om page one. I was touched by his comments.
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cofty
Not many Christians hold such an extreme view
From personal experience as an evangelical for 9 years I would say it is a very common view. Perhaps Piper expresses it more frankly than most would dare but the sentiments are all too familiar. If christians believe that god is in control then they must accept he permitted an individual to get cancer for a reason. Then you have no choice but to go through the angst of trying to find purpose in your suffering. Fukc that!
A friend of mine in church was killed in a farming accident leaving behind a wife and 4 teenage children. He was a lovely man and a vital member of the church leadership. The accident was so trivial and preventable but the consequences for his family were monumental. It was not his death per se that led me to question his faith but the reaction of every other member of the church to the tragedy. Everybody without exception accepted that god had done it for a reason and our challenge was to "trust and obey". His widow concluded that god had done it so as to convert others through her fortitude in suffering. The services and prayers during the following weeks were unbearable.
I was convinced that all attempts to explain god's place in human suffering were vacuous. I explored other theologies like open theism and process theology but my deconversion followed within a year or so.
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THE GLADIATOR
cofty It does seem that your experience of Christians had left you with a negative impresion; mine has been more positive.
As Terry would say, 'Your mileage may vary.'
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designs
Once you get into 'God's providence' the slippery slope of excuses gets longer than a politicians promises and just about as authentic.
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WTWizard
Why give God glory for healing a problem that he himself created in the first place? Would you give me praise for returning a monster box of silver if you knew I stole it from you in the first place? I don't think so--and praise in that situation would not be warranted. And neither is praising any Jehovah or Allah for removing, or worse mitigating, a problem he created in the first place.
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botchtowersociety
The pitiful story of Job is one of the weirdest and plain stupidest in the Bible - and there's a lot of competition for weird and stupid in that motley collection of primitive writings.
Job might be the best book in the Bible, IMHO. It is a great work of literature, such that volumes have been dedicated to it even in our own day.
The Book of Job was written for the same reason Satan was written in- to provide an alternative view.
What is interesting is that the book, in its original language, does not use the word "satan" as a proper name.
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Rocky_Girl
I disagree with the whole concept of humans being sinful from birth and undeserving of life. It is depressing to feel as if we have to be grateful to god that we are simply allowed to live, much less be disappointed when bad things happen. Why do we have to feel wretched about ourselves to appreciate life? I think I do a pretty good job without the guilt... Re: the cancer thing, why would anyone want to worship and love a god that considers a devastating disease a 'gift?' Disgusting. This is one of the main reasons I left xianity, along with a few thousand others.
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Sulla
It is perfectly legitimate to consider the common Evangelical response to evil, in this case, cancer, to be deficient. But to the extent that the typical American Evangelical theology is somewhat unreflective of the much deeper tradition, it might not surprise us to find their response to this problem is also somewhat unreflective. Joel Osteen or Calvary Chapel are great when you are a rich American who would like to hear how being wonderful makes God happy and makes you even more wonderful. But let's not confuse ourselves, ok?
The place to begin, from the Christian persepctive, is with the first thing that strikes you whenever you walk in to the first church: there is going to be a large sculpture of a man who has been tortured to death, this man is claimed to be the Lord of all things. Suffering, like love, is a mystery and we are advised to tread carefully.