Do JWs have a biblically normative relationship with Jesus christ?

by Vanderhoven7 93 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Vanderhoven7

  <<I was a rebel and started planning my exit>>

  So you were a rebel who called on, and communicated with Jesus Christ in defiance of your organization. But why then did you purposefully lead me to believe that this was common practice at the hall. Here is what you said:

  D: <<to say a JW does not call on or commune with Jesus is incorrect,>>

  Me: Are you saying JWs talk to Jesus, share their burdens with Him, call on Him etc. For example, have you ever heard anyone at the hall talk to Jesus?

  D: <<Sure JWs do those things>>

  Were there a lot of rebels in your congregation or were you being disingenuous? If the latter, your credibility, and my interest in discussing further with you, has been squandered.
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  ShadesofGrey

  As I understood it the reason the JW's say Jesus used different physical forms was not only because they say he was a spirit. It is also an attempt to reconcile the Bible showing no one recognized him, even his closest associates.

  If you read the accounts in the Bible, the reason that they did not recognize him is there. It was dark, she was crying, and had not looked in his direction yet... He purposely clouded their vision so that they would not recognize him, etc. Not because he had a different body.
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  ShadesofGrey

  Describe 'normative', are you wanting to follow the Eastern Orthodox traditions, Coptic, RCC, Protestant, Oneness, Unitarian, or Rabbinic ideas.

  Designs:

  Van said Biblically normative. I know Eastern Orthodox, RCC and Protestant Christians personally who all have a Biblically normative relationship with Jesus Christ. As far as I know Coptic is similar to these. I would assume that Unitarians do not, as their churches do not pray to him.

  There are also Eastern Orthodox, RCC and Protestant Christians who do not have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Sadly they fall into the same trap that JWs fall into and have a relationship with their church, their priest, their denomination, their Bible, their Pope, but not with Jesus Christ. Not the full relationship that is Biblically required.

  Sincerely,

  Carmen
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  nicolaou

  Vanderhoven7; "As mentioned, calling on and communicating with invisible angelic beings is spiritism."

  A meaningless label slapped on a nonsensical action relating to non-existent entities. And to top all that off you have the gall to follow that sentence with the word 'therefore'.

  I'm stunned at the inanity!
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  Terry

  Here is the wrinkle or fly in the ointment.

  Whatever or whoever Jesus might "be", if it is anything such as the Trinity doctrine implies--how would it actually matter if you addressed

  your love or your prayer to either "God" or "Jehovah" or "Jesus" or even Holy spirit??

  What is the point--from God's POV--in making formal Protocol a fetish if someone He has created is in distress and calling for help? Or, expressing love for that matter.
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  designs

  Terry- exactly, half of the trinitarian churches teach Jehovah is Jesus anyway.

  Shades- you need to qualify that position to the New Testament, the Hebrew scriptures and the jewish positiions are at odds with the christians on that point and even there the Unitarians and the Oneness Faiths have enough verses in the NT to base a position on.

  nic- there are still persons here who use 'heretic' and believe in devils and demons.

  Van- back in the 50's and 60's there were still a bunch of the 'anointed' old timers people like my grandparents who went back to 1890-1930 Bible Student's period. They had a stronger identity with Jesus than the one Franz was developing and those beliefs stayed with them to a certain extent. I think you have familiarity with SITS and Russell's ideas on Jesus.
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  sacolton

  I once told my JW B.I.L. "Jesus loves you" and he laughed. JWs do not pray to Jesus, but THROUGH him. It's not a relationship, it just making their angel-Micheal/Jesus a messenger. A real relationship with Jesus is how Steven, before he was put to death, prayed DIRECTLY to Jesus saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

  It's a huge difference.
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  designs

  So Sac, how do you reconcile that the Jesus character of the Gospels was not like the Jewish messiah and did not meet the criteria mentioned earlier.
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  ShadesofGrey

  hmmm, interesting, reading the Hebrew Scriptures is what convinced me that Jesus of Nazareth is Christ, Messiah, Savior, God.
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  tec

  Which version of the Jewish messiah, Designs? There is more than one, isn't there... from a flesh and blood messiah to a symbolic messiah? And that is just now; never mind how that might have changed over the years. But there are also Jews for Jesus, Messaianic Jews... though I realize that these might not be recognized as actually Jewish. But is that much different than mainstream 'christianity' stating that that JW's aren't 'christian'?

  I'm just saying, the Jewish faith is not all united as one in what it believes. So again, as in anything, one has to look into matters for themselves. (And if you have faith in One who can answer, then ask Him.)

  Peace,

  Tammy