Do JWs have a biblically normative relationship with Jesus christ? (page 5)

Vanderhoven7

I think that it is important to maintain biblical forms of worship?

In that context, as Pastor Russell taught....

"...to worship Christ in any form cannot be wrong." (W.T. March 1880. p.83)

Terry

My favorite definition of "worship": Man natural reaction to encountering the Living God.

what did you say?...are you saying that any image that man fashions and calls "christ" isn't wrong to worship? and that the orthodox "religious" isn't the habitation of Jesus Christ any more than say someone who refuses to name Jesus?...you're not articulating what you believe or think.

dear Terry...

so, considering man would be encountering Almighty God, creator of heaven and earth we ought to be reverent towards Him and show reverence toward the "church" He founded as well since He dwells in "it"?

profound statements should make us think...

What profit is the image, that its maker should carve it,
The molded image, a teacher of lies,
That the maker of its mold should trust in it,
To make mute idols?
Woe to him who says to wood, ‘Awake!’
To silent stone, ‘Arise! It shall teach!’
Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver,
Yet in it there is no breath at all.
“ But the LORD is in His holy temple.
Let all the earth keep silence before Him.” habakkuk 2:18-20

love michelle

Vanderhoven7

Any biblical form of worship, not any formulation of Christ. ;o)

designs

V- so how much latitude are you allowing on the formulation.

myelaine

dear Vander...

please don't attempt to take the cheese and run away...

Therefore please hear this, you afflicted,
And drunk but not with wine.
Thus says your Lord,
The LORD and your God,
Who pleads the cause of His people:

“ See, I have taken out of your hand
The cup of trembling,
The dregs of the cup of My fury;
You shall no longer drink it.
But I will put it into the hand of those who afflict you,
Who have said to yoursoul,

‘ Lie down, that we may walk over you.’
And you have laid your body like the ground,
And as the street, for those who walk over.” isaiah 51:21-23

Awake, awake!
Put on your strength, O Zion;
Put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city!
For the uncircumcised and the unclean
Shall no longer come to you.
Shake yourself from the dust, arise;
Sit down, O Jerusalem!
Loose yourself from the bonds of your neck,
O captive daughter of Zion!

For thus says the LORD:

“ You have sold yourselves for nothing,
And you shall be redeemed without money.”

For thus says the Lord GOD:

“ My people went down at first
Into Egypt to dwell there;
Then the Assyrian oppressed them without cause.
Now therefore, what have I here,” says the LORD,

“ That My people are taken away for nothing?
Those who rule over them
Make them wail,” says the LORD,

“ And My name is blasphemed continually every day.
Therefore My people shall know My name;
Therefore they shall know in that day
That I am He who speaks:

‘ Behold, it is I.’” isaiah 52:1-6

love michelle

Terry

Worship would have to begin with some personal idea that an "encounter" had taken place. With something AWESOME and REAL.

This encounter would be their own individual perception OR imagination OR delusion/hallucination, etc.

IT IS NOT FOR ANY OF US to say!

For example, in human terms, I cannot judge your toothache, your joy or sorrow because it is YOURS alone. Profound or ordinary or hypochondriacal.

The idea that there can ONLY BE (exclusionary) ONE correct way to experience a toothache, a joy or a sorrow is what brings us here to THIS discussion.

The EXclusion of others is what religion usually comes down to no matter what!

Why? Because the ludicrous idea that something can be PURE which consists of personal interpretation is above criticism!

GOD or CHRIST or KRISHNA or any other profound orgasmic paroxysm is ENTIRELY personal. Religion pretends it can be Externally judged, dictated, edited, decried or approved by human authority.

This is because humans rabidly insert themselves as GATEKEEPERS (usually for fee! or Power!)

It is a fetish and, frankly, an ugly impulse in my opinion.

I can watch a group of people in a restaurant hold hands and prayer over the meal they are about to take and feel the sudden impulse to JUDGE THEM because they are acting IN PUBLIC and I've been indoctrinated to recall the words of Jesus about "Do not do as the hypocrites who pray in public to be seen of men...." etc.

This is a nasty fault artificially programmed into my otherwsie adorably mild wonderfulness by having read the bible!

It is none of my damned business to read the hearts of men!

How we judge others is how we shall be judged......is something that might be more worthy of consideration.

myelaine

dear Terry...

you said: "Worship would have to begin with some personal idea that an "encounter" had taken place. With something AWESOME and REAL.

This encounter would be their own individual perception OR imagination OR delusion/hallucination, etc...

The EXclusion of others is what religion usually comes down to no matter what!

Why? Because the ludicrous idea that something can be PURE which consists of personal interpretation is above criticism!

GOD or CHRIST or KRISHNA or any other profound orgasmic paroxysm is ENTIRELY personal. Religion pretends it can be Externally judged, dictated, edited, decried or approved by human authority.

This is because humans rabidly insert themselves as GATEKEEPERS (usually for fee! or Power!)"...

I believe that's the reason for the church as a corporate body made up of individuals accountable to God AND each other. the church was started by Jesus and He allowed many people to witness the same awesome miracles(and if you read the accounts, Jesus says these miracles were done to bring glory to God or so that the witnesses would see the glory of God)...it wasn't one person here and one person there and another person somewhere else and then they all magicly found each other and...voila.

a random scenario is inconsistant with a loving God who wants to "sheperd" His people and have then know who He is....He decided to have a body to teach the truth about Him...and He created that body with the orthodox church. He created the church...the church gave us the bible...the Holy Spirit speaks through the church to interpret the bible, otherwise people can and do get the wrong interpretation...the random "mystic" is a metaphor for the one sheep who wanders who "He" would go out to find and bring back to the fold.

...the watchmen see face to face/eye to eye...and they "sing" together...

Your watchmen shall lift up their voices,
With their voices they shall sing together;
For they shall see eye to eye
When the LORD brings back Zion.
Break forth into joy, sing together,
You waste places of Jerusalem!
For the LORD has comforted His people,
He has redeemed Jerusalem.
The LORD has made bare His holy arm
In the eyes of all the nations;
And all the ends of the earth shall see
The salvation of our God. (isaiah 52:8-10)

love michelle

Vanderhoven7

<<so how much latitude are you allowing on the formulation.>>

There is no latitude, biblically speaking, when it comes to worship of angels.

As mentioned, calling on and communicating with invisible angelic beings is spiritism.

Therefore JWs cannot have a biblically normative relationship with Jesus Christ.

Do JWs have a biblically normative relationship with Jesus christ?

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