An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

by AK - Jeff 1495 Replies latest jw experiences

Qcmbr

AGuest - why would I pay international rates for more of the stuff you trot out here? You preach incessantly about the most ludicrous stuff I've ever heard (and my religious history has exposed me to a lot) and I don't want to hear more pseudo babble with a scripture misquoted here and there for good measure. I dont believe in a thing you post or any of your philosophy - why should I want to talk to you? - your just another person posting weirdness on a forum to me and you change the meaning of words so often that I can't understand what you are aiming at some of the time. A chat with you is not proof of anything except your existence which I've not doubted. If you have some proof that is more than your subjective magic world stop dancing around and post it otherwise stop pretending that you save all the real evidence for those willing to phone you up. You are no more special than any poster here.
If I had some great truth to share with the world I would do all I could to make it available and accessible , I certainly wouldnt take great delight in writing it in as confusing a manner as possible or in a style I knew was grating . I'd present my evidence and explain exactly how I observed and gathered my facts and I wouldnt play internet forum games as the way to promulgate my critical information.
If you seriously believed you had a provable, useful message you'd listen to what I'm saying and you'd consider new ways , more user friendly ways to share your thoughts but I suspect you'll just write me an essay explaining nothing beyond why you aren't anything but the undefinable all knowing AG.
undercover

How would we be better people if we did agree with you ?
No one said you would be. there are some really good people who believe...and there are some really bad people who believe. The same can be said of non-believers and atheists.
Which is evidence that belief in god or enrollment in a religion is not required to be a good person.
tec

Personally, if people want to believe in whatever god they want, fine with me. I'm all for freedom of religion, no matter how delusional it may be. But if someone claims that god speaks to them or that they have special insight on what God wants, I'm gonna call BS on it.
They have the right to believe it and I have the right to criticize it.
Um... it doesn't really sound (to me) like it is fine with you.
See, I am fine with you not believing, and I'm not going to criticize it. Not my place or my right. If you happen to be cruel to someone, or hurtful, then I might criticize that. But your belief or lack of it... especially if that belief or lack leads you to be a more compassionate person? None of my business... unless you ask me a question about it and make it my business, at least in the course of a discussion. But then that would be you inviting me in, not me slamming through the door.
Peace,
Tammy
tec

Which is evidence that belief in god or enrollment in a religion is not required to be a good person.
Who here has said otherwise?
Peace,
Tammy
still thinking

I know there are children who have attempted to escape horror only to find themself in worse horrible conditions. I am talking about commercially sexually exploited children. It is happening right "under our noses"*. I do not know how it feels to starve. I do know how it feels to be sexually exploited (not to the same degree as those children were). You use the illustration of masses of starving children. May I change the illustration to thousands of trafficked youth? Would the atheists be willing to give up thier sexual pleasure (not forever, let's say for seven years) if it would guarantee the release of those children from their pimps?
N.drew......I am neither athiest or believer at this stage...I am in nowhere land...but I would say with an uniquivocal YES if it would make a difference to these children. It's a shame God doesn't feel as strongly about their pain to stop it when it is in his power to do so.
This statemement of yours seems to allude that if you don't believe in God that someone who doesn't wouldn't do anything if they could.
At the end of the day, your illustration is pointless...because WE don't have that power...but according to you...your god does.
N.drew

Good enough for me, but I have to go to a little birthday celebration. I baked the cake and if truth be told, after I calmed down a little, I have baked a cake or two (when I was-you know). But this is something that I want to respond to right away.
@ If you have some proof that is more than your subjective magic world stop dancing around and post it otherwise stop pretending that you save all the real evidence for those willing to phone you up. You are no more special than any poster here.
Translated: Shelby If you are a friend of Jaheshua...
Gotta go, did I tell you it is carrot cake? Cream cheese frosting. Gotta go!
AGuest

Oooh! More stuff to respond to! (May you all have peace!)
Do I, don't I, do I, don't I...? I CAN. But someone always gets [their feelings] "hurt". Should I? Shouldn't I? Should I? Shouldn't I? Oh, what the heck... we're all having "fun", aren't we? Well, okay then. But where to start? Oh, I know (but since there's so much, this could get long, so be forewarned):
extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Disbelief in those claims does not require evidence, or proof, in opposition. In other words, if one says there's a god, they have to prove it. Those who do not believe do not have to prove there isn't one.
May I ask just who's "law" that is, dear UC (peace to you!)... and what requires ANYONE to adhere to it? I'm not saying it's "bad", not at all; however, I can give you actual written "law"... and you will tell me how it doesn't apply to you. Or say that just because I believe such requires such doesn't make it so. Also, if an "extraordinary claim" is solicited... and elicited... from one... wouldn't it actually be upon the one so soliciting to disprove it? If YOU ask me "why/how", etc., and I tell you... and you disagree... isn't it upon you to prove why YOU are "right" in your disagreement, versus calling upon ME to prove why I am not "wrong"?
[Okay... at this point I have to let ya'll know that I may have to stop in a few and come back later, 'cause I've had to take a pain med - some serious cold weather has arrived and, unfortunately, it has a very painful affect on my shoulder/arm. Hurts like the dickens!! I will continue for now ('cause I've nothing else to do right now, so...) auntil it kicks in, and then... well, I may have to come back later (tomorrow, even)... and finish. Just so's ya know...]
Aguest, I believe that what you and other christians believe is real to you.
Thank you... and why keep taking issue, then, dear Twitch (again, peace to you!)... unless you just want to understand (which is totally fine and understandable); however, to keep CONTENDING about it makes no sense at all, to me. You ask, we answer. You don't understand... so, why not just ask more questions? But you don't LIKE the answers... why continue even discussing, then? I mean, they're not going to change... contrary to what some of you may think/want...
I just don't know why it's any more or less real than alternative beliefs about god.
Ummm... you're asking ME? I'm not the one asking folks about their [other] beliefs about [god]. People can believe... or not believe... whatever they wish. They don't answer to me. Now, if one is making false claims ABOUT the God I know... then I offer correction/accurate information. Even then, though, they don't HAVE to believe/agree with me. They can take it... or leave it. I wonder, though, if "you" are so much more intelligent than, say, "us"... YOU don't see it that way, too... but must INSIST that others believe/agree with YOU. What do you CARE?
Of course the question puts the burden of proof on you as a believer.
I have to refer you to my response to dear UC above: who says? I mean, since YOU are the one ASKING... why isn't the burden on YOU to prove what you DON'T believe? And why is that since you CAN'T prove what you don't believe (that there is no God)... how are you "right" in putting the burden on "us"?
I can only attest to what I experience and believe, not unlike yourself or anyone for that matter.
Yet, you take issue with me... for doing the EXACT same thing? My understanding is that that is what's called... wait for it... hypocrisy. Do you not SEE that, dear one?
So the question remains, who or what determines whether a god is real or fake?
And the response remains... why don't YOU tell "us"... since whatever response we GIVE won't be "acceptable" TO you?
God keeps whispering more stuff to her...
The Most Holy One of Israel does not "keep" whispering things to me, dear UC. If anyone is "whispering" to me, it's His Son, the Holy One of Israel. But I am certainly not the first... or only... one he "whispers" TO. (Matthew 10:27; Proverbs 8:8a) But, yeah, he does share a lot... I will address comments from dear Uber (peace to you!)... and Jer (maybe; dear tec may have already covered enough)... in separate posts. Again, peace to you all! A slave of Christ, SA, who IS starting to have some fun; too bad, though - meds'll be kickin' in soon...
poopsiecakes

Ok I read everything and now I just want a drink. And for some reason I'm craving KFC...
tec

May I ask just who's "law" that is, dear UC (peace to you!)... and what requires ANYONE to adhere to it?
Yes, thank you for asking that!
This is one of those things that the first time someone said it to me; that I had ever heard of it actually (here on this board)... I thought, "What? Says who? What makes that true?"
Personally, I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I will share what I believe, and understand... and anyone is free to accept, refrain, or simply keep an open mind and perhaps ask for themselves. (in fact, the only one I would ever want someone to do is that third one)
Peace,
Tammy
tec

I think I get KFC too much, Poopsie (forgive me, outlaw for that 'blasphemy' against the Colonel ) I can never get enough of the fries and gravy from the Colonel though. I don't really drink though, and I never get drunk. I might amuse the lot of you if I did drink and post one night though. Hmm...
Peace,
Tammy

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

Share this