An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 134)

ziddina

"What about the first flower appearing in an area devastated by nuclear fallout? ..." N.drew

Actually, that's far better evidence for evolution, than a "loving" god...

Scientists investigating the areas of nuclear fallout in Japan, after the bombs were dropped, found that there was a zone in which the nuclear radiation seemed to have stimulated excessive plant growth....

In my opinion, this may have occurred because the ancient, proto-plants evolved on a planet that wasn't as well-shielded from radiation from space, as it is now...

Here's an abstract - science paper overview - on the subject of plant growth stimulated by lower levels of exposure to radiation - certain types of radiation...

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033756063800149

And a second abstract on the same general subject:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033756069800530

So, that "flower" growing after the nuclear explosions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was probably in a zone where it received a certain amount of radiation as "stimulus" - it most definitely WAS NOT a "miracle" from "gawd"...

ziddina

"If God told them about the volcanos they wouldn't understand what he was saying. What? Where? ..."

N.drew, I'm going to use your post to answer both your comment and that of bohm...

The bible "gawd" ALSO did not understand what a volcano was, as it was "HE" who directed "Moses" to draw the Israelites to the foot of the erupting volcano!!!!

They were DAMNED lucky - if that eruption had been a LITTLE bit stronger... PfSSSSSSSSSSTT!!!!

N.drew

Haha!

ziddina

"Just convince me that there's justification for God having us live on an Earth that produces Earthquakes . . . entirely random occurrances that kill indiscriminately... Sizemik

Well, earthquakes aren't really 'random'...

They're a natural phenomenon that is currently traceable to fault lines in the earth's crust, which are often "active" - prompted to "release" stresses placed on the earth's crust by the expansion of the Atlantic ocean's seafloor at the mid-oceanic ridge, which puts pressures upon the continents surrounding the Atlantic...

And compounded by the subduction of the Pacific oceanic plate - plates - beneath the "leading" - western - edges of the North American and South American continents - which puts pressures upon the western edges of those continents...

Japan, Hati, the Phillipeans, and many other geologically active areas - like the continent of Australia, the islands of New Zealand, and the Indonesian areas have their own tectonic and geologic pressures which generate frequent earthquakes and volcanic eruptions...

And also - indirectly - related to the expansion of the Atlantic seafloor...

All of which we would have had absolutely NO knowledge of, had we continued obeying the words of the Johnny-come-Lately Middle-Eastern male volcano 'gawd', who, according to legend, was SO opposed to knowledge that he considered the tree with the fruit of "knowledge" to be HIS - and HIS ALONE, as evidenced by his 'death sentence' upon anyone who sought out knowledge...

And I'm noting that I'm on page 5, and I'm outta here to run errands - WAY late...

Zid

still thinking

That belief negates the motivation to change things - after all, if a dead person goes to "be with gawd", then why prevent their death? They're going to a "BETTER" place...

zid...this is the thing that makes the least sense to me when people try to teach that we go to heaven...you know...when they try to rationalise why children die...god wanted them...

Given that reasoning you would have to conclude that death is better than living...we here on earth are being punished...and we should be grateful that god took the children to save them from the punishment of earth.

Where does that put earth then? Is it the miracle of life? Is it a gift from God? Is life a gift from God? or a punishment?

I think this is where the JW teaching really convinces studies that they are the 'truth' because dying and going to heaven does not make sense...they don't either...but when your searching for god it makes more sense than the punishment of life on earth.

poopsiecakes

And I'm noting that I'm on page 5

Poor Zid...

still thinking

I think she might be a glutton for punishment poopsie...her brain might be mush when she gets to the end...if there ever is an end

I reakon she should take hold of our hands and walk off into the sunset with us...Africa looks nice tonight

sizemik

Well, earthquakes aren't really 'random'...

Random was not meant "entirely" as stated, but in the timing sense. Sorry I mislead you with that, but thanks for the explanantion.

I think modern understanding of plate motion ascribes their movement to convection currents in the mantle along with other possible factors like gravity and subduction drag (conveyer belt principle). Convergent and divergent boundaries are simply the result of the movement, including the mid ocean ridges and subduction zones.

AK - Jeff

I think modern understanding of plate motion ascribes their movement to convection currents in the mantle along with other possible factors like gravity and subduction drag (conveyer belt principle). Convergent and divergent boundaries are simply the result of the movement, including the mid ocean ridges and subduction zones.

Sure would be easier to just believe the earth was made a paradise in 6 days by god, and that earthquakes are a sign that the end of the 7th day [in god's eyes] will usher in that peace lost when a naked lady listened to a talking snake, snuck a bite of god's apple, and ruined paradise. It'll all be over soon, when god fixes it, stops mankind's despicable run in it's tracks, then calms the seas, the seismic plates, and makes the animals all eat veggies again under the reign of a resurrected son of a carpenter [who was not really his son since it was gods' sperm that made his wife prego].

Just sayin'.

Jeff

tec

They were DAMNED lucky - if that eruption had been a LITTLE bit stronger.

Strange, that, isn't it?

;)

As per the rest (natural disasters/cause of suffering, etc), I shared my understanding and thoughts throughout this thread, and I don't think I have anything else to add. You have a lot to wade through though, poor Zid!

considered the tree with the fruit of "knowledge" to be HIS - and HIS ALONE,

Knowledge of good and bad. Not knowledge, itself. Not only that, but knowledge of... as in knowing good and bad. Death, I imagine, falls under 'bad'.

Peace,

Tammy

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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