Proof of God or Christ without a holy book

by Awen 131 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest - believe it or not I don't believe a word you say regarding your nocturnal chats with overlord Jah.

    First, my "chats" are not always nocturnal, dear Q (again, peace to you!). Second, they're not with the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies (who isn't an "overlord" - LOL!); they are with His Son... which is something I just don't get why YOU just don't GET (or do, but choose to ignore, perhaps thinking it's gonna get under my skin - not!). Third, I totally believe you (that you don't believe a word I say regarding... well, anything I "say"); given your comments, how could I not? Nothing you've posted to me has ever given me any other impression. So, you're "safe", dear one: I have absolutely NO "delusions" that you might be coming over to the [side of] Light.

    You are just another preacher.

    I get it that such a word probably leaves a "dirty" taste in your mouth (it does mine, given what it usually refers to)... but given that some were considered preachers "of righteousness"... I guess I can live with that accusation. I mean, you DID mean it in a nice way... didn't you?

    You aren't the first nor will you be the last and you a certainly one of the least persuasive I have ever talked to.

    If I were trying to persuade you of anything, dear one... you might expect me to be a bit hurt at that comment. Since I'm not trying to persuade you... all I can say is that nothing has occurred that shouldn't have occurred. So... no worries, right?

    As such realise my comments aren't always aimed at your particular version of magic man.

    Ummm... your question seemed to have been directed to "anyone", dear Q. Since you didn't specifically exclude me, I responded. Now, perhaps that's not what you would have liked me to do, but... I mean, since you weren't specific...

    My comments stand and you have not answered them at all.

    Well, I could say "likewise, dear one"... but that would be inaccurate, because I DID answer them. Every one of them. Starting with:

    "... there is no 'game'... psychological, subjective, or otherwise... as the sole means of communication... but Christ"...

    See? No, it's okay: I know you DON'T see. Perhaps because I didn't preface my comment with, "the answer is". Or perhaps because... well... But that's on you, Q, truly. You might want to review the post to "see" the other "answers", though. Now, perhaps like some, those "answers" don't comport with what you WANT/need them to... what you WANT to hear (okay, read), but... I can't help that. Really. Again, that's all on you.

    Night. Though I hope for your sleeping habits you get at least one other convert and you can get Jah to split his time with them so allowing you some sleep. You need it badly by the sound of it.

    I DO need some sleep, dear one; severe (sometimes blinding) shoulder pain has been robbing me (and, by default, my dear husband) of it, lately. So, yeah, I could probably use some.

    But I am not seeking any converts. In fact, I actually find that statement... well, quite curious. Because of the source and reason for THIS very thread... and my comments on it. Here's the thing (which you seemed to have missed... along with the other stuff):

    The OP professed to professing to be "anointed" at one point. Recently, even. Which means, to ME... that he didn't need converting, but was already a believer. Okay, so he's currently having difficulties with his faith. I took no issue with that. Rather, I wished him peace and resolution. I even openly stated... on the preceding thread (in which he requested that he NOT be PM'd)... that I neither desired to (re)convince him (or anyone), that it was not my place... and so we should leave off discussions. I wished him love... and peace... on HIS journey. My position? Matter closed.

    Then... I am publicly notified by the OP that I have a PM from him. Which I responded to. Twice.

    Then... I see this thread. Directed to... who... you? Nope. Me. Based on comments I made in the previous thread. I initially thought to ignore the thread... because I KNEW it would turn into one of those "usual" back and forths with the "usual" suspects (which includes you, yes). But... the OP deserved a response... and since he asked his questions/made his thoughts public... I responded publicly. I refrained from the "usual" discussion(s)... remained silent... even ignored some posts (probably should have continued but didn't, so I'll own that...).

    And in ALL that I responded, however... I shared the truth. Didn't try to convert anyone. Didn't try to convince anyone. Didn't try to REconvince anyone. Just shared the truth... truth that the OP already knew. That he STATED he knew.

    So... your comment is, again, quite curious. It says to ME that I am correct as to you... that you really AREN'T grasping much here. I can only conclude that either (1) you are really not paying much attention (and hence, why even comment??), or (2) you really DON'T have the capacity to grasp as much as you THINK. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, though, dear one... and assume you're really are just not paying attention.

    I will know if my assumption is accurate... if, when, and how (if you do) you respond. If it's not... well, then, that takes us back to option (1), doesn't it?

    Again, peace to you, truly!

    YOUR servant... still... and a slave of Christ,


  • tec

    Can anyone explain why their concept of God has to play psychological, subjective games as the sole means of communication (besides every now and then killing a mass of unsuspecting people , normally in poor parts of the world)?

    Can't answer that, sorry. My God sent His Son. Nor does He 'kill masses of unsuspecting people, normally in poor parts of the world.'

    Is it really too tough to just announce oneself to the world rather than having to do so via - normally charismatic - individuals. Being the most powerful being in the universe with an ever so important message (worship me or else) must really, really suck if the only means at your disposal to communicate is warm, fuzzy feelings, vague impressions, dreams and an inability to use the really smart people. Honestly - must send him into a frustrated rage that he can't just use vibrations in the air or electromangnetic waves. Guess he's not so powerful (smart?) after all.

    But that isn't His message, Qcmbr. He sent His message through Christ. Look to Him if you want to know it. You're looking all sorts of other places, and so it should not be surprising that you don't GET his message, should it?

    Peace to you,


  • Awen

    In the past month or so that I have refrained from commenting I have done some "soul-searching". I was once a believer and I wondered why I had seemingly lost my way. The Bible writers many times questioned God and why things were the way they were or are and eventually got the answers they were looking for. So have I.

    There are many different religions on this planet, all with their own interpretation of who God is and what He expects of us. Who am I to question the validity of their faith or the experiences they have had? I'm just a mote of dust blowing in the wind. I think that the bad things spoken of God in the OT were things God really didn't do, but rather things that were done in His name and attributed to Him in order to put the fear of Him in the enemies of the Israelites. We can never know for sure since none of us were there, but I think it's a fair assumption when others, especially His Son contradicts these personality traits that God never did any of these things.

    Consider for example the Witnesses explanation of why hell doesn't exist. Jah found it repulsive that the hebrews were sacrificing their sons and daughters to Molec in Gehenna (the high plains of Topeth outside of the walls of Jerusalem), something "He had not commanded, nor had come up into His heart". So it would be quite hypocritical of Him to condemn this action and then send people to Hell, a much worse place by comparison.

    So it seems the OT is filled with much hypocrisy on the part of the Israelites when it comes to the nature of God. The Israelites had no problem disobeying God when it suited their purpose or desires. Consider the Moabites who made an alliance with the Israelites upon their arrival in Canaan under false pretenses. The Israelites upon discovering their charade could have put them all to the sword (as they were supposedly commanded by God to do) but didn't. Some time later Ruth, the Moabite, became an ancestor of Jah eShua. So if it WAS indeed God's commandment for them to be put to the sword for simply occupying the land of Canaan, then why allow Ruth this privilege? Obviously the Israelite scribes had lied about the message they received (if any at all) concerning the native residents.

    I have questioned extensively why God allows suffering and it comes down to love on His part. That might sound odd but consider that we are responsible for the majority of suffering on this planet and yet we stand idly by and complain about it and do not much of anything.

    We have a beautiful planet that sustains us and produces all that we need to survive. Yet because of our own greed, it is being systematically destroyed. We have thus far been unable to ascertain how life originally started. All we have is speculation (as long as we leave God out of the picture) yet the complexity of life is all the "witness" we need to know that God exists.

    God not speaking to us or seemingly not doing so isn't His fault, but ours. We choose by our hard-heartedness not to listen and to not take note of our surroundings. Gos is speaking all the time. jesus is speaking all the time, but not in the way we wish them so, but in their own way. If we immigrated to a foreign country we wouldn't expect everyone (who looks like ourselves) to learn English just so we could communicate. The burden would be upon ourselves to learn their language, customs, morals, etc. So it is also with God. Though being made in His image we have grown very far away from Him and His Son. We have forgotten how to listen and how to speak. Like spoiled children we demand and stamp our feet at God that He give us what we want. How many good parents on these boards know that when a child does this the best thing to do is not give in? The child must change their attitude first and humbly ask for help. They must submit to God's authority (much like a child to a parent) in order to receive instruction. Yet many on these boards while knowing this still refuse to do so and then wonder why God doesn't listen to their prayers or answer them, nor make His presence known in their lives. This isn't always the case. Many prayers have been answered, but many times we are blinded by our own stiff-necked pride to see it and so it goes "unfulfilled" as far as we are concerned.

    So I realized I was falling into this trap. I had prayers answered but I didn't like the answer. I wanted something different. However I had promised to follow Jah eShua (and all that it might entail) and so I got it. It's been difficult, but everything is as it should be. It's a matter of putting aside doubt and simply doing. If ever I have endured hardship, 95% of the time I can put the blame squarely upon myself. the other 5% might be discipline that I need (as any parent who truly loves their child would give).

    And so it goes.

    Awen, your servant and slave of Jah eShua

  • tec

    Welcome back, Awen.

    The Israelites upon discovering their charade could have put them all to the sword (as they were supposedly commanded by God to do) but didn't. Some time later Ruth, the Moabite, became an ancestor of Jah eShua. So if it WAS indeed God's commandment for them to

    be put to the sword for simply occupying the land of Canaan, then why allow Ruth this privilege? Obviously the Israelite scribes had lied about the message they received (if any at all) concerning the native residents.

    Good point.

    Peace to you,


  • leavingwt

    Welcome back!

  • sizemik

    Welcome back Awen . . .

    I take it you also did some research as well as soul search. Interesting analogies. I like analogies.

  • garyneal

    hmmm, interesting

  • sizemik
    Only one book of scripture* is cryptic, dear MDK (peace to you!): the revelation given to John. Which was cryptic for a reason: it's a REVELATION. Meaning, it must be REVEALED. By the One who so encrypted it... and no other. None of the others, however, were cryptic, but actually very open and revealing. Now, than man tampered with, altered, edited, mistranslated, mistransliterated, and misinterprets it... well, that's on man who does so. Not on the One who inspired it.

    Is it just me? . . . or is this absolute nonsense to anybody else?

  • AGuest

    Welcome back, dear Awen... to the board... and to the Body!! I had no doubts that you wouldn't entirely leave either! The greatest of love and peace to you... and glad to "see" you!

    YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,


  • The Quiet One

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