New light emerging?

by breakfast of champions 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • InterestedOne

    If the WT or a CO is saying that Jehovah will spare some non-JW's, I don't see how that statement agrees with other things I've heard from JW's such as:

    1. The JW organization is like Noah's ark, so you have to get into the ark to be spared.

    2. If you are not doing all you can to tell people not to take blood transfusions, you yourself are bloodguilty. I don't think JW's teach that Jehovah spares people who are bloodguilty.

    Saying the above two items while at the same time saying that Jehovah will spare some non-JW's sounds like a contradiction, i.e. nonsense talk.

  • sabastious

    This topic was always widely debated among my JW peers growing up (not publically of course). Many JW's I knew just couldn't swallow the assertion that there would be only few, if any, non-JW survivors after Armageddon. However, the Watchtower publications clearly state, many times, that God/Jehovah requires a JW lifestyle to be saved (meetings, personal study etc). Any Witness that can't stomach this ideal and believes otherwise is in denail of their religion's true bigotry.


  • steve2

    It could be a modern-day version of what I used to tell people who said, "Do you believe only baptized active witnesses will be saved at Armageddon? I was taught to say something like, "No man can say who exactly will be saved. That is in Jehovah's hands". Of course, if you read between the lines I wasn't saying non-active JWs wouldn't be destroyed, but I also wasn't saying they would.

    Clever. It's all for PR.

  • Farkel

    : I said, "Don't you teach that only JW's will survive." They said, "No, Jehovah reads hearts." My response was "I know for a fact the WT teaches that you have no chance of surviving if you aren't a JW.

    In fact, YOU got it right. They are just lying about the doctrine and you got it right. The Fred Franz statement in the 1950's WT about 99.9% of all humanity being wiped out at Armageddon calculates precisely to the proportion of JWs to the population of this planet. It leaves NO room for non-JWs with "honest hearts."

    Just what is an "honest heart", anyway? It's all bullshit. Do "honest hearts" protect pedophiles, join the UN, make false prophecies, operate in secrecy, hide documents, spy on people, hold secret star chamber hearings, lie about their past and deny their numerous mistakes?

    I don't think so. Do not forget the monumental and idiotic early 1970's Assembly where the Mighty Watchtower Corporation made an absolute ass of themselves with that big talking and beating heart in an idiotic attempt to show that the heart was the seat of all human emotion. I remember it well. Years later, they calmly admitted what everyone knew anyway: the heart pumps blood, and that is all it does.

    I wrote a piece about that. It's on Randy's site somewhere.

    : 1. The JW organization is like Noah's ark, so you have to get into the ark to be spared.

    In fact, even though Hebrews 11 stated that Noah was a preacher of righteousness, if you carefully read the Genesis account, NOWHERE did God ask Noah to warn anyone or preach a single word. In fact, God said everyone else was toast. God had NO faith in the redemption of anyone else: build that Ark. Save yourselves and your family. Period.

    If the WTS prefers to believe in myths, the WTS simply needs to get its myths straight. It's bad enough to believe in shit, but to make up more shit about the shit, is dumb.


  • WTWizard

    Sept 1 Washtowel? That gives me a clue as to why only the "incorrigibly wicked" will be destroyed--because that's the edition the Washtowel Slaveholdery wants the public to see! This makes them think they might be salvageable, and that will sucker them into looking further into the religion. Were the Showcase Washtowel to make the point that everyone who is not a witless and is not sincere will be destroyed, almost no one would bother investigating further.

  • james_woods

    I remember way back in the 1970s some witness COs (and maybe hints in the literature) saying that god would have to judge people in countries like Red China where obviously they would never be able to contact every man, woman, and child. In this teaching, one or two missionaries in hostile territory would suffice to say the message had been preached in all the inhabited earth.

    Somebody put up a thread here which correctly stated that this would make it very much easier for a Chinese communist peasant to survive the big A than an American citizen - where almost everybody has had a chance (and acted upon it) to reject the JW door to door message - probably for purely practical reasons of their own. Such as the fact that most of these door-to-door audience already had a religion - usually a christian religion.

    Somehow, that doesn't seem quite fair, does it?

    But again, as others have said - this is really a JW pseudo-teaching. Kind of like the public stance that people decide the blood issue on their own personal conscience. A public statement for public consumption - but not a true statement of JW internal thought.

  • NVR2L8

    If you had the right heart condition or if you are not incorrigible you would be a JW! Jehovah reads hearts and the angels lead the preaching work so we can find HHH people and bring them in the "TRUTH".

  • james_woods
    If you had the right heart condition or if you are not incorrigible you would be a JW! Jehovah reads hearts and the angels lead the preaching work so we can find HHH people and bring them in the "TRUTH".

    But then you would have to ask, if Jehovah is really "reading the hearts and angels lead the preaching work", then why don't they just tell the witnesses which doors to knock on? Why the monumental waste of time to knock on a thousand doors to find one would-be convert?

  • InterestedOne

    NVR2L8 - I asked my study conductor about the people who have never heard about JW's before the slaughter begins. He said that it is ok for people who have never heard about JW's to get killed in the slaughter because if they had had the right heart condition, Jehovah would have found a way to reach them with the message.

    As for why bother knocking on all those doors, he said that we don't totally know the mind of Jehovah, but we know we are commanded to preach, so we do all we can to preach.


    I do hope this is not true. Imagine stroking wild beasts for eternity and living on fruit in a world full of watchtower slaves.

    I am quite looking forward to fighting to the death at the battle of Armageddon. Better a good death than a life of slavery.

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