by Band on the Run 98 Replies latest jw friends
Hey, you ain't my husband... so you ain't the boss of ME (and even if you wuz, you still wouldn't be the boss of me!)... RoosterMan, dear (peace to you!). So, you just go on and hush up your own cock-combed self! LOLOLOLOL!
Peace!
SA, on her own... who's been known to fry a really mean peice of chicken... and doesn't care if it's a hen... or a rusty-butt ol rooster; both can be marinated and so become quite tender... and tasty...
LOL, g'night Shelby, have a good holiday weekend.
george there was no call for that. If you don't like a poster then feel free to ignore them.
Absolutely NO worries, dear Lady (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!). I believe the old Rooster (peace, my bruh!)... was only being facetious, in his cock-a-doodly kind of way. I took no offense... and I truly don't think he meant any. If he did, well... may he choke on his own cockles. LOLOL!
Peace to you both!
SA, on her own...
I never meant to imply that men have it easy. Since I am a feminist, my focus is on women. When I started with NOW in my teens, I was bored my women's issues such as childlren, food, housing, health, etc. Time has changed me.
I don't blame the women. Sooner or later, though, we must revolt against our oppressors. The hankies on heads drove me berserk. Most groups that hate women so much are geographically separate from the rest of the world. Hasidim women have an interesting postion. I would not call them doormats. They maintain their culture b/c they are geographically separte from mainstream NY society. Witnesses live in the world.
How do you raiise daughters to value themselves in the Witnesses? A hankie on the head is not self-esteem. How do they go to school and see that their female friends are not evil. Their friends wear trousers. Yet only a skirt is acceptable. Barbie outfits from the 1950s are fine.
I am still unclear what is it in JW culture that the men are so unmanly as to be threatened by trousers? Roman Catholic priests allow women to wear pants suits. It seems like a silly item but its ramifications are deep. Women cannot be sexual even in appropriate ways. I recall when my mom had younger children. There was a section of Yankee Staidum where the young mothers went, without ventilatio or light. It was descending into hell. Most cultures would celebrate the arrival of precious bundles.
Self-loathing is the word for it. I feel they selected the Witness b/c of self-loathing. I have no answers. My intent was to raise questions and see what others felt.
I grew a backbone and left.
Best decision I ever made.
I am still unclear what is it in JW culture that the men are so unmanly as to be threatened by trousers?
This edict against pants for women isn't because JW men are threatened by women in trousers (C'mon..you can't have possibly believed this to be so ?)
The Boys back east think the public will be stumbled by anything but traditional conservative garb. They think the public wouldn't take a woman in a pair of slacks or a man in an open necked shirt seriously or view them as members of a legitimate religion. It's all about image....they must make up for what they and their members lack in actual theological credentials by making them look the part of someone who knows what they are talking about.
Very interesting thread. I don't have the answer, but I may perhaps offer the point of view of an outsider. Why is it that Muslim women are treated the way they are treated, and Muslim men play the role they play? It's perhaps most shocking that Muslims raised in Europe still behave as if they had been raised in, say, Saudi Arabia.
In Latin America, for most of our history women were treated as inferior to men. And this happened in society at large, not in a small group. The more rural the people, the worse off women are. Why was that?
I was event thinking that what you guys, Catholics and Muslims share is the fact that we were all children of the "desert religions", as Pat Condell would call them. But then, why is it that Japanese women fare that bad?
Like I said, I don't know, but I somehow have the feeling that the explanation for behavior of this sort goes much beyond the Watchtower. I believe it has to do with learned behaviors. We all learn to think that women are below men. Some insecure men of centuries past turned it into religion. I recognize that this may be too easy an explanation.
When I first came into the Organization (fresh out of high school) I had a particular viewpoint of women. Raised in a female dominated household I always saw women as superior to me (despite the WTBTS admonition otherwise). When seeking a marriage mate later on I was always intimidated by the Sisters in the congregations and more so by their fathers. I recall one sister in particular named Amber who's father was the CO of my congregation. He made it quite clear that for me to have any chance with her I had to accomplish certain goals. I had to be regular at the meetings, commments, reach out for privileges, pioneer and be able financially stable. A lot to ask of an 18 year old boy. I say boy because at that time (at least in my congregation) it was said you weren't a man until you were 30 years old (when Jesus was baptized).
I worked as hard as I could, making myself physically ill from the hardships. I fell asleeep during meetings. I gave everything I had and it was never enough. Do more was always the admonition. Preparing for the meetings, commenting, going out in service in a tie and coat (sometimes taking the coat off when the temp soared above 90 F).
I also saw the hardships the Sisters underwent. Though not allowed to "reach out" for privileges they were often "put in their place" by others, either older married sisters or immature single Brothers. I realized that they had it just as hard as I did, but in a different way. Though I wanted to do more so that I could have a wife and family, they were encouraged to do less (except pioneering) in order to have the same thing. I spoke with many a married Sister who had hopes, and dreams unrealized because their husbands were so domineering. I made it a point to never treat any person as inferior, nor on the other hand to be made to feel inferior by them because they held a position I did not.
I see what BotR is saying and yes there does need to be some backbone growing. But on both sides. The only control the GB has over the rank and file is what the rank and file allow them to have. It can be broken. The evidence is here on these forums.
Some might say that is easier said than done. I say it is easier done than said. History is full of examples where people have grown weary of tyranny and rose up against it. I believe the only thing holding most JW's back is the idea that YHWH directs the GB. Once that illusion is shattered then the house of cards will fall. Until such time however there is much that can be done.
For myself alone I knew that going against the GB meant I would probably never be allowed to marry or hold privileges. I realized these privileges were an illusion, they didn't really mean anything except boasting sessions to other people. YHWH doesn't care if we pioneer, comment or whatever. What He cares about is we follow his Son. Treat others with respect. Love one another.
If more people realized that it is all vanity and a striving after wind then they would stop all this nonsense. I suppose though people are afraid. They are so afraid of losing their position that they will turn on those bringing a message of hope and love. Sound familiar?
So we might blame the GB for some of our suffering but in reality we hold most of the responsibility. We allowed these things to happen to us because we feared men and the things they could take from us (also an illusion). I have lost dear friends and family to the WTS, but part of the blame is on themselves as well. They allowed themselves to be misled. They allowed others to think for them. They allowed others to tell them what was right and what was wrong, despite what the leading of the Holy Spirit said. This is definitely true of the GB so they hold the largest responsibility for misleading so many, but not all the blame. We hold some of that too. Personal accountability. If we are honest with ourselves and do not attempt to shift blame onto others then we will see the Truth of it.
The GB's authority is not granted by God, it's self-granted. It can thus be taken away by honest people who love God more than they love themselves. This though takes great courage and a willingness to give up all that you have for the ones you love. Possibly even your life.
A small pebble is all that's needed to start an avalanche.
Awen
Well said, Awen.
Dgp, I agree it's more of a historical thing that purely a WTS thing. It's up to our generation and those after us to ensure women are granted more respect than they have in the past.
