by Terry 74 Replies latest watchtower bible
james-
I agree, the GB let us hang during the Vietnam War..
No shit, sherlock my friend. But as the society explained when they reversed the ruling on conscientous objectors - we did it all because of our own conscience. The WTBTS had nothing to do with it. I was instructed by them to say that before my draft board. I have posted it before on this board - but I was actually planning to go to Viet Nam rather than to prison if it came to that.
Covington's name is at the beginning of all these historic Supreme Court cases. I just needed to say I talked with him so as not to lie. If he were an active Witness or still tied emotionally to the Witnesses, I would not want him as my selective service lawyer. Fresh eyes would be better. Also, he could have been great before the highest appellate court but not so sterling before a draft board and federal trial court.
In my time, pioneer hours always equalled the number of hours required for a Selective Service exemption. Are you saying not even full time pioneers could get a co status? It is news to me. My father had a ministerial exemption during WWII. So what was the Witness criteria for ministerial and c.o. status.
Very sad religion.
I have considerable personal experience with Draft Boards, Selective Service, prosecution for Military evasion and such having gone through it myself as well as spending 1967-69 in intimate conversations with other JW's as a Federal prisoner.
I previously mentioned that one of the brothers, Sam Salamy, from Oklahoma hired Hayden Covington as his attorney of record.
According to Sam, Hayden Covington leveraged his trial on a demonstration of dubious worth! The form from the Federal Government requiring an appeal within a certain number of days was attached with a perforation to the draft card itself in such a way that made it highly unlikely it would be used or seen. Covington demonstrated this in front of the judge and jury to absolutely NO EFFECT! Every one, including Sam, sat there blinking at the ridiculousness of the point being made.
Sam had thought he would be hiring a Constitutional lawyer with brilliant theocratic defense speeches. He hoped at least a headline banner defense would give a good public witness. But, no. Covington assured Sam that this would only alienate false religious piety among his jurors.
Bottom line? It cost Sam about $10,000 dollars for the same defense I got using a Free Public Defender. He was good enough to laugh about it.
But, is it funny?
I previously mentioned that one of the brothers, Sam Salamy, from Oklahoma hired Hayden Covington as his attorney of record.
According to Sam, Hayden Covington leveraged his trial on a demonstration of dubious worth! The form from the Federal Government requiring an appeal within a certain number of days was attached with a perforation to the draft card itself in such a way that made it highly unlikely it would be used or seen. Covington demonstrated this in front of the judge and jury to absolutely NO EFFECT! Every one, including Sam, sat there blinking at the ridiculousness of the point being made.
Sam had thought he would be hiring a Constitutional lawyer with brilliant theocratic defense speeches. He hoped at least a headline banner defense would give a good public witness. But, no. Covington assured Sam that this would only alienate false religious piety among his jurors.
Bottom line? It cost Sam about $10,000 dollars for the same defense I got using a Free Public Defender. He was good enough to laugh about it.
Terry, I did not know you knew Sam Salamy. Sam was from my congregation in Oklahoma City, a good friend, and that is exactly the story I was relating earlier. It was Sam who told me not to use Hayden Covington. For what it is worth, if you knew Buddy Thompson - who went to prison at the same time as Sam, he pretty much got the same treatment.
Were you aware that Sam Salamy died suddenly of a heart attack about a decade ago? He was just firing up his charcoal grille to cook a steak when it happened. He remained a practising JW up until his death...I thought this was a tragedy too, in that none of his Lebanese family were JWs but they patiently supported him no matter what he did. My family went to see him in prison several times.
Terry, I did not know you knew Sam Salamy. Sam was from my congregation in Oklahoma City, a good friend, and that is exactly the story I was relating earlier. It was Sam who told me not to use Hayden Covington. For what it is worth, if you knew Buddy Thompson - who went to prison at the same time as Sam, he pretty much got the same treatment.
Were you aware that Sam Salamy died suddenly of a heart attack about a decade ago? He was just firing up his charcoal grille to cook a steak when it happened. He remained a practising JW up until his death...I thought this was a tragedy too, in that none of his Lebanese family were JWs but they patiently supported him no matter what he did. My family went to see him in prison several times.
OMG!
Thank you SO MUCH for this information!
Buddy Thompson and Sam were two of the sharpest, wittiest, most intelligent people I've ever met with tremendous talent and drive.
Buddy was endlessly funny. I'd give anything to be able to contact him. I tried for years to locate Sam. I'm so very sorry to hear about his death.
Is he still around? I've also wondered about another Oklahoman named Ron....umm...the mind just went...sorry. He played trumpet in our JW Prison band. Another fellow, Tollie Padgett went on to be a Missionary. He was a mammoth brain who did so much to help me learn how to study properly.
Wow. This really made my day. Thank you!
Terry, I will send you a PM - hopefully this weekend - with some further information about Sam.
Maybe you and Quentin can drive over to Dallas some weekend and I will cook you a steak.
We could create a bottomless list of things which are useless and time-wasting that came from Russell, Rutherford and F.Franz---but, did we
ever really come up with one USEFUL THING doe by them?
Yeah I can name lots of UN useful things!!!
One HUNDRED years and nothing at all to show for it all except wasted lives and arm-twisting.
If that isn't at least a tiny crime against humanity I don't know what would qualify!
Ummm... explained the identity of Leviathan and explained the 1,600 furlongs of Revelation 14:20?
The Finished Mystery, 1926 edition, p 85
[Explanation: Here "leviathan" is interpreted as a train locomotive, Biblical reference to Leviathan in Job 40:15 to 41:34 is fulfilled by the arrival of the Locomotive Engine - brackets all in original. TFIM was described by the Watchtower as a "a powerful commentary on Revelation]
Thou wilt lengthen out leviathan (the locomotive) with a hook (automatic coupler) or with a snare (coupling-link) to drop down. Wilt thou not place a ring (piston) in his nostrils (cylinders) or pierce through his cheeks (piston-ends) with a staff (piston rod)? Will he make repeated supplications unto thee (to get off the track)? Or will he utter soft tones unto thee (when he screeches with the whistle)? [...] Wilt thou play with him as with a bird (make him whistle at will)? Or wilt thou bind (enslave) him for thy maidens (so that you can take them to a picnic or convention)? Companies (of stockholders) will feast upon him (his earnings)...
The Finished Mystery 1926 edition, p 230 "By the space of a thousand and [six] TWO hundred furlongs.-- A stadium is 606 ¾ English ft,; 1200 stadii are, mi., 137.9 The work on this volume was done in Scranton, Pa. As fast as it was completed it was sent to the Bethel. Half of the work was done at an average distance of 5 blocks from the Lackawanna station and the other half at a distance of 25 blocks. Blocks in Scranton are 10 to the mile. Hence the average distance to the station is 15 blocks, or 1.5 mi. Official Railway Guide time table distance Scranton to Hoboken Terminal, 133.0 mi. New York City Engineer's official distance Hoboken to the Bethel, via Barclay Street Ferry, Fulton Street and Fulton Ferry, 8,850, 4,950, 2,540 and 1,460 feet respectively, or a total of 3.4 mi. Shortest distance from place where the winepress was trodden by the Feet Members of the Lord, Whose Guidance and help alone made this volume possible. mi., 137.9 |
Does that count???
