NAME ONE USEFUL THING done by Russell, Rutherford, F.Franz (page 2)

designs

Russell: Started a lot of Tour Businesses to Egypt

Rutherford: Kept Canadian Whiskey Distillers working during the Great Depression

F.Franz: Life Insurance companies loved him, they sold tons of Term Life Insurance policies to JWs

Terry

Despite all the faults I can find with Russell, I do think his original intentions were in the right place

Whatever intentions you refer to actually were---they did not include being intellectually honest about fudging facts and changing figures when he was proved wrong.

His dealings with his own wife were just short of reprehensible.

Remember, it is what we DO that actually means anything; not what we intend......that is, unless you are being tried for conspiracy to commit a crime:)

edmond dantes

They did wonders for the manufacturers of printing presses oh and print paper the paper manufacturers didn't need to diversify into toilet paper they let the Watchtower Corp. do it for them.

What about how much they contributed to the banking system by re-investing they must have put the money somewhere. I mean the banks needed to lend money to a lot of Worldly concerns including Satans Governments around the Globe.

The Watchtower Corp. wouldn't let a little thing like investing in futures stand in their way of maximising profit.

james_woods

I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but Rutherford being such an absolute prick did force some issues of religious freedom to be heard by the US Supreme Court, the decsions of which have benefited more than just JWs over the decades.

Point taken. I would lavish credit for THAT on Hayden Covington, however. Am I being unfair?

I have been thinking about this overnight. I agree that the conventional thinking agrees with this idea - that the JWs produced breakthrough religious civil liberties due to Covington's supreme court cases. Apparantly even some non-JW civil rights legal people think this is true. My problem with this idea is that I cannot think of a single ruling which actually benefitted anybody except the JWs peculiar anti-government theology. For sure, all their legal wrangling did not keep hundreds of JW young men from doing federal prison time over the draft. Maybe somebody could post up something specific which was any real good that came out of this...maybe it is even worth a thread.

Band on the Run

Here, Here! First A. rights. My father was Hayden Covington's drinking buddy. There was friction and trouble for Covington b/c his name became associated with God's name (Knorr). My father heard persistent rumors that Covington was disfellowshipped and could not track down the truth. He was going through the gate at Yankee Stadium, when guess who was right before his eyes. They embraced but my father left quickly b/c Covington was prob. disfellowshipped.

Covington nurtured those cases. He was good. The real brain trust was the American Civil Liberties Union. The ACLU wins so many cases and shapes law against the political majority b/c the lawyers are so brilliant. Corporate litigators working for free and Ivy League law professors. I've worked with them on several cases as a volunteer lawyer. Regardless of the merits of the client, the professionalism, insights, creativity, and other factors are amazing. Lawyers should pay the ACLU for training them in the very best. The NAACP Legal Defense Fund, Inc. Fund, may also have been a player.

They all accomplished one good thing in my eyes: they took the Witnesses from an obscure sect to a greedy monster. My hatred for what I saw repeatedly with decent individuals made me leap away from them. Entropy was overcome.

james_woods

Side note on Covington - I met him in the late 60s - he was defending two good friends on draft evasion charges. He blew these cases because he was an obnoxious old drunk. He was even drunk when he showed up for the meeting in our kingdom hall. He basically abandoned both cases during appeal to go defend Cassius Clay/Muhammed Ali on draft charges - after charging both witness guy's families $10,000.

So, can anybody come up with a specific Supreme Court ruling that the JWs caused that actually was any good for society in general?

Terry

For sure, all their legal wrangling did not keep hundreds of JW young men from doing federal prison time over the draft.

Actually, many JW's think this. However, legally speaking, any Conscientious Objector was given a pass by allowing Alternate Service instead of Military Service.

In the U.S.A. religious objections are allowed to stand vis a vis Military Service! They give you an out.

The local Congregations were privately, surreptitioously instructed by Headquarters to inform brothers about to go to Trial NOT TO ACCEPT the alternate service and to make a stand instead.

I personally was told never to tell anybody I was being advised by them to take these steps.

These people KNEW they were breaking the law! They wanted martyrs.

What a waste!

designs

Did any of the GB ever visit any of the Brothers in prison in Stafford AZ., not to my knowledge, the Bastards.

Band on the Run

B/c my father knew Covington as a friend, rather than illustrious brother, I wanted to write my college thesis on the WT cases. My mom was expelled from high school before the U.S. Supreme Court ruling. Her hurt nursed my commitment to civil liberties since I was in grade school. The problem was that I needed to get into a good law school. The college was very competitive. Many went to Harvard and Yale law schools. I did not want to attend a fly by night school someplace in the boonies. My Christian friends who wrote Catholic oriented term papers in New Testaments always received Honors. They now recieved C's b/c try as they might they could not be objective. Also, it would be an emotional malestrom for me.

Every const'l law text for lawyers emphasizes the importance of the Witness cases. They happened during a specific time period. Countless times I sat in classes as profs acknowledge how they enforced the First Amendment from reactionary governments during the Red Scare and Cold War. I promise to reutrn later with a list of the most important landmark cases.

I want to expand my views about the ACLU's role. (I also had access to ACLU profs). When I started clerking and doing Supreme Court lalndmark civil rights work, I did most of the research. I was shocked that they trusted me. The important thing isn't the actual law as forging alliances and forming strategy. Time and time again my groups retreated from issues in their interest b/c it would adversely affect an allied group's litigation. There was a civil rights movement that groups served together. When I was doing my research, the U.S. Supreme Court had become a beacon of progressive civil rights for decades. The politcal climate changed and very smart conservatives became justices. Suddenly, the very last place to go was the U.S. Supreme Court. Every state has a const'n that mimics that U.S. Constitution. They can never restrict rights in the federal const'n. States, though, can decide to increase liberties above the federal level. These state courts were chosen. A negative ruling can set you back for many decades. It was better to have no ruling.

The rub was that citizen can bring a case before the U.S. Court. Many do. Local lawyers with no ties and knowledge of behind the scenes maneuvering love the prestige of a U.S. Supreme Court case. They argue the opposite of what the repeat players would argue. Repeat players are important. If you do something 100% of your time and practice in NY or DC, you know much that cannot be found in books. Sometimes lawyers wept when they saw what a local lawyer did.

The question about did it benefit anyone else besides the Witnesses would be a wonderful term paper.

NAME ONE USEFUL THING done by Russell, Rutherford, F.Franz

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