Toddler accidentally shoots woman dead in Idaho Walmart

by nicolaou 101 Replies latest social current

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

   I wasn't even going to comment on this thread as this flavor of topic inevitably, and quickly, spirals into polarized combat (no pun intended) which I do not want to be a part of.

  I do not have a problem with anyone expressing their opinions. What I do have a problem with is individuals who regularly marginalize others as "psychotic" idiots, or in some other not-so-subtle way categorizing entire groups of people as mentality deficient (in this case, gun owners), yet the accusers have no problem making jokes about a tragic death, even implying the person 'had it coming', and cannot even find it in their heart to feel a liitle bit sorry for the victim- all the while bragging about how superior they are to pathetic gun owners.

   

  "The problem isn`t owning/carrying a gun...The problem is being irresponsible with a gun..."

   

  I wholeheartedly disagree. The tone was set with the OP:

   

  "I've nothing to add to my past comments on Americas psychotic relationship with guns. Not all Americans of course, just the idiots who think a nation flooded with firearms is preferable to one free of them."

   

   "The problem is being irresponsible with a gun..."

   

  I agree, irresponsibility with a gun is inexcusable. However, I must point out that the article does state, after police officials reviewed the store's security video, they determined the incident was an "accident", not a result of being "irresponsible".The article also says the woman had a CCW permit, which means a few things:

  1) she had to take training classes to obtain her CCW permit. This is hardly what an irresponsible person does. 

  2) the gun was most likely in her purse 24 hours a day, so having it with her in a Walmart while shopping would not be unusual.

  3) her child obviously got into her purse while she wasn't looking. Regrettable for sure, but it cannot be immediately labelled "irresponsible".

  People are so quick to judge. No one here knows why she owned a gun or obtained a CCW permit. Was she raped in the past and lives with constant fear it could happen again? Was she a victim of domestic violence? Had her life been threatened recently? Was she assaulted at one time and determined she never wanted to be a victim again? I don't know, and neither does anyone else. To immediately judge a person as an idiot, a psycho or an irresponsible person who deserved to be culled from humanity betrays many things, but empathy is not one of them.

  It's all too easy to view things in retrospect and determine what "should have" been done, then declare something as an "avoidable" accident. My guess is if this young mother had been rundown by a drunk driver or bludgeoned to death by a burglar, the same people who make light of her death would be very empathetic. But, being that she is nothing more than a filthy, degenerate (albeit, legal) gun owner, who cares? One less idiot on this planet, right? 

   
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  fiddler

  I felt awful for this family when I first read the news.  I had four little ones by the time I was 29 so know full well how crazy and distracting shopping with them can be (which is why I generally didn't).  I guess my biggest question is why the safety was off.  Did the toddler watch her handling the gun and figure out how to undo the safety?  I just can't imagine that she failed to set the safety with her training and having all those kids with her.  Also...I keep my purse on me at all times and I don't carry a gun. She must have been pretty frazzled is my guess and what a price to pay.  RIP young mom.
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  OUTLAW

  I wholeheartedly disagree. The tone was set with the OP:....ADCMS

  I don`t agree with the personal opinion in the OP either..

  My comment isn`t based on the personal opinion in the OP....
  

  I agree, irresponsibility with a gun is inexcusable. However, I must point out that the article does state, after police officials reviewed the store's security video, they determined the incident was an "accident", not a result of being "irresponsible".The article also says the woman had a CCW permit, which means a few things:

  A toddler got her gun...

  I don`t want to trash the poor woman but she ddn`t make sure the gun was securely in her possession..

  i don`t know how they could label it as anything other than an accident..

  I doubt the toddler was planning to "Bump Mom Off"..
  

  But, being that she is nothing more than a filthy, degenerate (albeit, legal) gun owner, who cares? One less idiot on this planet, right?

  No..

  I have nothing against responsible gun owners,or people who carry guns responsibly..

  Although tragic..
  

  I think the story is a good lesson in why you need to have your gun secured.
  
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  I guess my biggest question is why the safety was off

   This hasn't been determined yet. The police investigators are looking into it.  Maybe the safety was on and by some stroke of misfortune her son switched it off.

   

   

  Although tragic..I think the story is a good lesson in why you need to have your gun secured

  Yes. Agreed.

  Until we figure out how to take making mistakes out of the human equation, this kind of thing will happen... unfortunately, whether its with a firearm, a car, a power tool, a motorcycle, a burner on a hot stove, fire. Hindsight is always 20/20.  

  I think fiddler made a good point:

   I had four little ones by the time I was 29 so know full well how crazy and distracting shopping with them can be (which is why I generally didn't).  

  Perhaps this story will make others with similar circumstances reassess their situation. 
• 

  nicolaou

  For what it's worth ADCMS I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments about some of the heartless comments on this thread. What I find difficult to square however is the undoubtedly genuine concern I sense from good people like yourself with a broad support for gun ownership which causes the misery we read about.

  Yes I hear what you're saying about background checks and responsible ownership and that's all fine but from my limited European perspective the heart of the matter is being missed.

  An armed population.

  To me, that's an alien and frightening proposition. If the U.K followed America's lead in this area I'd move away. I'm sorry but it really does seem like idiocy to me.

  Perhaps the word 'psychotic' is inflammatory but America does appear to perceive or interpret this lethal issue differently to everyone else.

  What word would you use to describe that?
• 

  Simon

  There is something in the American psyche that seems to focus on fear. Someone is always "coming to get them" whether it's a threat from abroad, someone down the street or Ebola.

  We get US news up here in Canada and it's unbelievable how many times some event on the other side of the world is perceived as a direct threat to people in the middle of the US when it's being discussed.

  I think the obsession with guns is a symptom of this mentality. Everyone sees personal protection as more important than anything else but can't see that the idea of allowing everyone free access to guns means you are more at risk than you otherwise would be.

  It's a little like vaccination - best scenario is you are armed / don't get vaccinated but everyone else is unarmed / vaccinated so you get all the benefits with none of the risks.

  It doesn't work in reality though.

  Having said all that, I think if I lived in the US I'd probably want to be armed to the teeth and shooting at anyone who looked at me funny. You never know, they may think you're looking funny at them and just be about to defend themselves ...
• 

  Finkelstein

  When I hear stories like this it makes me glad to be living in Canada, where guns isn't such a compelling issue in regards protecting oneself out in public.

  Why this woman thought it was important for her to carry a gun in her every day going about like grocery shopping is bit puzzling. 
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  @ nicolaou: I appreciate your comments very much. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I want to address this first:

   but from my limited European perspective the heart of the matter is being missed.

  Maybe this is the core of misunderstanding any culture or country.

  To me, it seems odd that a government is in such fear of its people it doesn't want them to own firearms; and, it's equally as strange that citizens are so untrusting of each other they fear their neighbor having a gun. That's my perspective.

   I live in the USA and have never seen or felt the things Europeans or Canadians describe about their perceptions of what life is like in the USA. I do not live in fear. I live in a State where open-carry and concealed carry are legal, yet I just about never see someone carrying a gun even though they have every legal right to do so. As far as concealed carry, I don't worry about that either, for one very simple reason: a person who has a CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) permit is a law-abiding citizen who's following the rules and being responsible.

   Perhaps the word 'psychotic' is inflammatory but America does appear to perceive or interpret this lethal issue differently to everyone else

  Most likely true. But the perceptions you have adopted are based on your vantage point- across an ocean, on a different continent, in a different culture and country. I think anyone viewing life in the USA from the outside must think it's like the Wild West- everyone carries a gun, you can't go grocery shopping without getting shot at, out-of-control violence. It just isn't so. I feel no fear no matter where I go. I don't see or feel anything that causes me concern. Generally, I think Americans are no different than anyone else. The sensationalized news that we get here, and that you get, skew the reality of daily life to appear as being something it is not. No news outlet airs stories about Joe Average Citizen who keeps his guns locked up safely and didn't shoot anybody; but some nutjob who shoots up a school or gang-related shootings always make the news. Unfortunately, the idiotic very small minority always makes the responsible majority look bad.

   

  @Simon:  There is something in the American psyche that seems to focus on fear.

  Fear is a natural human emotion and not limited to Americans. I am an American but I don't feel the fear you seem to think I have, nor does anyone I know. I'm sure there are people that feel massive paranoia and fear about everything, but that's most likely a mental dysfunction rather than a citizenship function. They'd probably feel the same fears living in Canada or the U.K. 

   I think the obsession with guns is a symptom of this mentality

  Obsession? Strong word and, in my opinion, incorrect. Just because many Americans believe in personal protection and legally owning firearms doesn't make them obsessed. People in every country and culture have issues they feel passionate about. In the USA, people feel very passionate about liberty and the ability to protect themselves.

  I find it interesting that the people most vocal about American freedoms, especially in regard to the gun issue, don't live here and never have lived here. If the day comes where Americans sense some kind of 'emergency' situation where their right to bear arms needs to be changed, they'll change it. It's one of the grand things about a free society and free markets.

   Having said all that, I think if I lived in the US I'd probably want to be armed to the teeth and shooting at anyone who looked at me funny. You never know, they may think you're looking funny at them and just be about to defend themselves ...

  And you say WE live in fear? Wow. I am a gun owner, have been most of my life, but I never felt the need to be "armed to the teeth" or shoot somone for looking at me. That may be your pattern of thinking, but it's not mine and certainly not that of any other gun owner I've ever met.
• 

  piztjw

   In fact, how many gun shooting sprees are ever stopped by an armed bystander?

  Here are about twenty to start with. I wouldn't expect most people to agree though, just as typical JW's will never agree to anything critical of their convictions, regardless of any facts presented.

   

   http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/mass-killings-stopped-by-armed-citizens.html
• 

  piztjw

  @AndDon'tCallMeshirley

   I believe you stated the facts most sensibly. As a patriotic, legal, American citizen who owns firearms, is a permitted CCW holder with a clean criminal background check, am not living in paranoid fear, hunts for my meat, I can also state that your are 100% correct in your above comment.

  Well said!