My Wife wants to allow a Sister from her congregation to provide before and after care for my oldest daughter...

by garyneal 32 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut

    You have already been given great advice. I will add that your wife already reveals her attitude when she suggests that this lady will explain her position and give your daughter "the truth." Of course, to a JW, the truth is only what they are taught from WTS.

    Her objection to your religious intolerance is one-way speaking. She would almost certainly be just as intolerant to a Catholic-sponsered daycare, even though they don't 'teach' religion to children.

    "The truth" is that even the most brutally honest JW who promises not to indoctrinate your daughter will see a higher purpose in telling her some information from WTS's point of view on birthdays, holidays, worldly anything. Any JW who is not the most brutally honest will promise anything, then do what they want. Many JW's would view childcare as an opportunity to increase their service/recruiting time by talking to the child about their beliefs.

    But you could also debrief your daughter to determine how much poisoning she is receiving. While that seems like a balanced route, I would never go the 'balanced route.' I would not have a JW watch any children, as I know they can't help themselves but to recruit.

  • betterdaze

    • Will this JW drag your child around in field service all day while you and your wife work? We know how they use children as "human shields." Worldly people are less likely to slam the door in the face of a child. Less likely to say "No" to a child soliciting donations, too.

    • If there's a horrible accident, and your daughter is losing blood rapidly, will this JW delay proper medical care? Will she disrespect your Headship™ as a male because you are not a JW? "Obey God rather than men" and take emergency medical decisions into her own hands?

    • And if this JW is minding children in her private home, what about other JW residents present? Can you be assured they aren't active pedophiles who've been covered up by her elders?


  • garyneal

    Thanks for the responses everyone, and thanks for the advice Scully.

    I feel like a heal, actually, for even broaching that subject. Maybe it is my paranoia and I need to just get over myself. Perhaps some time away from here would help. Sorry...

    Lady Lee and Jamie Bowers voiced the concerns I would have and yes I would debrief my daughter should she be put in that spot.

    Truth be told, ya'll, we use another one of the sisters for my youngest daughter because it was just too expensive to put her in a daycare (infant) and she seemed rather nice and professional. She provides receipts and even has a tax ID number (her husband got it for her per my recommendation due to her giving out her SSN every year). I think she also babysits worldly kids and her husband is an UBM (which is a plus).

    But this chick just did not seem right for some reason and frankly I did not see why we needed to change the set up for our oldest daughter as we are already paying the money anyhow. Her attitude did not help matters at all and made me quite angry at what she keeps insinuating when our differing views gets discussed. I guess Jehovah's Witnesses cannot help but insult outsiders and do so without even knowing it. It's definately made me more consciotous about how I respond to people that do not agree with my viewpoint and made me aware that I must rise above that.

    Vander: I've tried that route with her but she keeps pretending that it does not matter. I'm sure she would think otherwise if I had the people at the church as involved in my life as she is trying to get the ladies at the hall involved in hers.

    Aussie and Pam's Girl: I doubt she is certified in any way. She wants to 'make extra money' so she is asking around to help with this kind of thing. She could be harmless but better safe than sorry.


    However, if this woman is basically just a babysitter from the congregation, you'll want to be on the lookout for things like Bible Story books, the society's DVDs for kids, and things like that. She may not directly attempt to 'indoctrinate' your child, but those items might still be used for entertainment.

    This crap lays around at our house. Frankly, and I have told her this too, she should count herself lucky because I could be one of the UBM who really gives her a hard time about her practices and throws away her ragazines and all. I don't, and I do it out of respect for her. She should appreciate that.


    Now I understand, garyneal, that your wife is a jw and is she instructing your child at home in her beliefs?

    Yes and no. We tend to do it in a indirect way. Sometimes I even instruct them on their ways and compare them to other's ways in a kind of objective way. As I told my wife when the whole 'Princess and the Frog' ordeal came about, I try to be as objective as possible.

    I daresay, I never considered whether or not she would report the income. My first guess will be no and this will be a problem come tax time, unless my wife just takes the attitude that it is not worth haggling over. Frankly, I would want any tax benefit I can get as we don't qualify for earned income credit or any government assistance or anything like that (we make too much). As I said before, the other sister is far more professional about it as she has been doing that for years, I trust her more.

    Scully: No, my wife cannot quit work right now even though that would be the best route. She has to finish college (on their dime) and pay back some time afterwards so she is stuck (and she hates it too).

    OTWO: You nailed it as far as the attitude is concerned. Frankly, I was about to give in thinking this would not be much different than a Jewish woman who does not celebrate Christmas, etc.. As longs as their were polite and did not try to 'convert' the kids, I would not see a problem. It was the attitude displayed by my wife more than the religion that made me not want to go there.

    betterdaze: It would be before and after care since my oldest is going into kindergarten and will be at school most of the day. That said, there is still some cause for concern. My wife's attitude being the main thing that put me off to it.

  • garyneal

    Black Sheep:

    Frankly I did not know how to reply to your post. It cuts in so many ways. I guess I will take it point by point.

    JWs lie. My family members lie to me. Anything goes when they are protecting their cult and their cult members and 'saving' their siblings from their killer god.
    Theocratic Warfare might not be named as such any more, but it is still practiced.

    Indeed, and that did concern me. Truth is, even though deep down I think she may have been lying, I would still have trusted her until she gave me reason to think otherwise. I just cannot live in fear like that. However, when I did discuss my concerns over this with my wife, her reaction and attitude did not help allay my concerns at all. In fact, they only increased them and made me angry.

    But which is the worst? Just being dead and knowing nothing, or burning in hell for eternity? On that score the WT wins hands down.

    I suppose it depends on perspective. Consider this:

    The IFB's teach that only they have the 'correct teachings' and that they are the best church to attend. They teach hellfire, the trinity, etc and they insist that being saved by Christ is not enough. You must also be at the church every time the doors are open and you must do regular soul winning. Anything less is not found favorable to God and your salvation may come into question as they can make you think that you were not really saved. Therefore you may wind up burning in hell.

    The WT also teaches that they have the only 'correct teachings' and that they are the 'closest thing to the truth.' They don't teach hellfire, the trinity, etc and they too insist that being saved by Christ is not enough. You must attend all your meetings and commit to at least 10 hours of field service. Anything less is not found favorable and you may not really be saved. Therefore you could wind up dead knowing nothing at all.

    Given those two scenarios, the WT wins hands down. Neither one of them provide much assurance and both wear a person out mentally, spiritually, etc.. I nearly committed suicide when I was an IFB because I never felt like I was doing enough.

    Godrulz has put me right off Christianity. As far as I know, Christianity in general doesn't deny this doctrine. Some of them might try to minimise it, but JW's do the same with some of their loopy doctrines.

    GodRulz is a fundamentalist. He would probably say that I too am going to hell. If he's right, I will meet you there and we will party on. I remember him saying that Buddha went to hell.

    But you brought up an interesting point concerning JW's and hellfire. I know they teach annihilationism and I often wondered how they reconcile this with them saying that we are destined for the grave and no more. They don't deny that 'death and Hades (hell)' would give up their dead and those found unworthy will be cast into the lake of fire. To be destroyed, of course.

    You are both protecting your kids from each other.

    Perhaps, I am just trying to be reasonable. I understand we have to make allowances but it looks like I am making all the allowances. My personal beliefs are in a constant state of flux as they are influenced by the evidence. Therefore, why should I be so fundamental about them? If my daughters want to become a witness, I will love them no matter what.

    I'm glad I'm not in the middle. I got bent enough being brought up in a one cult household.

    Yes, I am aware. You also got your Anglican wife to convert and your kids are in it as well. I'm sorry to hear that.

  • noni1974

    If the preposed sitter is not a legal daycare I would not put your child in it. Why would you want to split your two kids up anyway? If your youngest is already in one and you trust this person and she seems to be running things in a legeal way ask her if she has a spot for your other daughter. Where has she been going up to this point? You said you and your wife work so who takes care of her now?

  • sd-7

    Look, this isn't that big of a deal, per se. Your wife's a JW, so you're going to have to deal with their crap and their presence in your home/world, to an extent, unless you really raise hell about it. If you're willing to do that for peace of mind, which is a paradox, that's your call.

    It depends. If they're a JW who has just a bit of a worldly streak, they might be cool. Or at least not that likely to try and indoctrinate the kid. If they're hardcore, then you definitely need to consider other options. I would guess there's no way to find that out except to see them in their local congregation. Which complicates things.

    Unless they're being given authority to refuse blood for your kid or something, I wouldn't worry about it. Got to go with what's cheap. If they're good at child care, I don't see it being that big of a problem, especially if your wife is taking the kids to meetings anyway. If she is, this won't make much of a difference. If she's not, well, it's a little more relevant, but not necessarily the end of the world.

    It also depends on the congregation and the people in it. If there's something unusual going on, some cause for suspicion, however small, trust your instincts and act in the best interests of your child.


  • hamsterbait

    Send your daughter to legally recognised day care. She will be learning NORMAL social skills with other NON CULT children.

    Never leave your daughter alone with a witness.

    Stop prevaricating. You have WASTED days debating this issue on here with your constant "yes but no but you see its like this but"


    You know the score, just make up your mind and assert your headship already.


  • sherah

    In my area, babysitting and child-care is a popular side hustle for some SAHM and pioneers. The majority of it is under the table, no licenses or certifications. Many dub families avail themselves to these services because it's cheap and they want their kid around other JW's.

    I can write a book about some of the things that have happened from these arrangements, most of it not good. The pioneers often take the kids they are charged with out in FS and/or older kids and non-JW family members have a hand in caring for the kids. Scully said it best, check for licenses and ask alot of questions before you agree to this person caring for your kids.

  • garyneal

    Thanks again for the advice. The decision was made a few days ago, we're going with the center. I personally believe she (daughter) needs that so that she can socialize with a larger variety of people. As long as my wife don't renege and if she does, we'll cross that bridge then.

    Thanks all.

  • garyneal

    noni, we had no choice but to split the girls up. The oldest has always been in daycare but for the infant, daycare was just too expensive ($200+ per week). The oldest will remain in a daycare, before and after care, center.

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