Christians used to be sure of what they believed...

by THE GLADIATOR 68 Replies latest jw friends

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    I used to define myself as I don't know what I believe.

    It was so much easier in a way to be told what to believe and what everything meant. But to live like that you have to sell your soul. And forfeit your right to live your own life, good or bad.

    Its interesting that the watchtower taught how all relilgions have a similar background. But they used that information to discredit other religions. Now I see that same sort of information elsewhere and am seeing the similarities...therefore...the connection between religons. Isn't it amazing how we can have a different understanding depending HOW WE chose to look at it.

    I am trying very hard to see things in an unbiased way...but know full well that my preconcieved ideas will always get in the way. So it means I have to pray for discernment and guidance (still need to remind myself to do this to).

    Growing up an only child I know too well how your imagination must come into the frame. It is vital as an only child, otherwise you just wither and die of boredom. But I still know the difference between imagination and belief.

    I am very aware of how belief is formed depending on where you were brought up and how. So I am trying to weed out and sort what is mine and what is learnt. Not an easy feat I might add...I had the same problem after going to a support group for family of alcoholics. I got to a point where I didn't know who I was anymore...but thats where it gets interesting...because once you discover that most...if not all of what you believe isn't yours, or YOUR beliefs belong to someone else you are free to decide for yourself who you are and what you believe.

    I cant explain why I still believe in God, and I certainly can't prove it to anyone else. But at this point in my life I don't think I need to either.

    Maybe this is what a christian really who keeps seeking and asking...maybe thats why christians don't agree...maybe they are all just at different stages of understanding. I don't see a problem with that. But I do see a problem with christians condeming one another. When I see this, it helps me to see what I shouldn't be maybe there is always a lesson for me...even in that.

  • NewChapter

    NewChapter, it is not as simple as "Liar, Lunatic or Lord?" Please name any choices that don't fall under the choices I have given.

    If there really is a voice, but it is not "The Lord," then number 2. still applies. If aliens are supplying the voice, then AGuest is wrong.

    Okay, okay. Let's seeeeee.

    Perhaps fillings in cavities can pick up radio transmissions making one believe they are hearing messages.

    I heard that some toilets make funny sounds and people mistake it for talking.

    My brother talks to himself incessantly, so I find myself hearing and responding--but it wasn't meant for me.

    Some people, like me, have sleep paralysis, and the experience can feel very real. Some believe they have contacted aliens in this state, others angels and demons.

    None of this applies to Shelby, I'm just discussing it as a hypothetical for academic reasons.

  • AGuest
    None of this applies to Shelby, I'm just discussing it as a hypothetical for academic reasons.

    It truly doesn't, dear NC (peace to you!), so thanks for the disclaimer!

    Is that why some posts are signed by jesus and some by just you? As in "on your own"?

    I don't know that any are signed by "Jesus", dear Twitch (peace to you, as well!). When I sign "on my own," though, I do so because it is either something of no interest to my Lord, something of myself (i.e., MY thoughts/sentiments, etc.)... or because I do not wish others to equate HIM with what I may have stated.

    How do you differentiate between what you are saying and what you perceive the lord is saying through you?

    First, it is rare for my Lord to say something "through" me - I am not a medium. I simply share what he says to ME... with YOU. There are times, however, when he DOES say something that is directed toward another, and I state that ("The word of my Lord to you is..."). It's easy enough to differentiate, though, because I know me... and what I think and sound like... and him and what HE sounds like. Trust me: they're not that much alike. HE is good. Kind. Merciful. "Nice." I am not. And I am being completely honest with you. I am trying to LEARN, though, how to be such things. As you can see, I often fail. Miserably.

    Do you believe you have special knowledge

    Nope. The "knowledge" I have is (1) not mine, and (2) available to every other living person on this planet. All they need to do is ask for it... and exercise faith when they receive it. Although the first appears to be easy, apparently the second is not so much.

    or are an instrument of god?

    Again, no. I am merely a servant... of His Son, first... of those who belong to His Son, second... and to all others, third.

    Do you believe you are helping others find light by sharing your insight or what is shown to you?

    (Smile). No, dear one. I CAN'T help others find him (the Light). It doesn't work that way. THEY have to look for him... and HE finds THEM. I am just one tiny voice saying, "Hey, you CAN find him... and he WILL find YOU... if you just look! I know... because he found ME!" That really is it. Now, that I willingly go and DO that... ummmm... "work"... has resulted in a plethora of "rewards", yes. But I don't do it for such rewards: I do it because I love the One who GRANTS me those rewards (i.e., seeing, hearing, etc., regarding the truth as to the spirit realm... and various truths related to THIS one).

    How is this different from any other person of christian faith?

    From christian faith? It isn't. Truly. But not all who profess such faith... HAVE it... or are christians. Sorry, but that really is the truth. If they have not yet received the promised holy spirit... the anointing by means of which such ones are CHOSEN (thus, MAKING them "christians" - chosen/anointed persons/people/ones)... then they are not who they say they are. Not YET. Doesn't mean they WON'T be; apparently, they hear the CALL. They just haven't gone through the DOOR... so as to be CHOSEN. Many ARE called, though...

    And how is that different from the words and deeds of any inspired person of any other faith?

    I don't know that it is. I've personally never said that it was. My position is that the Most Holy One of Israel shows mercy to whomever HE wishes... regardless of whether they are Israel (Jew OR Samaritan)... or of the (non-Israelite) nations. It's always been that way...

    What makes your hebrew god special?

    My God is not a Hebrew, dear one. He is, however, the God OF the Hebrews, if you're counting Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The only thing that I can say makes Him special, though... is His love. Which I once THOUGHT I knew of. I came to know, though, that I truly had NO idea. None at all. Once I did... which I did through knowing the love of His SON... I couldn't help but love Him in return. And that is why I'm here: to work out my own salvation. To show the One I love... that I truly DO love him... and love those HE loves. Which is, truly, everyone. It's not their love that is lacking, dear one. It is ours. For God... and Christ... which we show... by our LACK of love... for our fellowman. Including, most importantly, our enemies.

    Ultimately, if one does not believe in the christian version of god, is one any worse off?

    Not necessarily. Rahab didn't worship the God of Israel... yet, her entire household was saved because she helped His people. Ruth didn't worship the God of Israel... but her love for Naomi prompted her to stay with Naomi, regardless of which god Naomi served. The "Good Samaritan" considered Jews his enemy... and they he. Yet, when he came across a Jew lying beaten in the road, his COMPASSION prompted to help that one, even though an enemy. The man's own fellow worshippers, however, stepped right over him and left him for dead. As one put it, faith... without works to SHOW that faith, dear one... is dead. Has absolutely no value at all.

    Just some questions off the top of my head. If it seems rude, well forgive me for foregoing the emotional appeal of your writing, just writing what my voice is telling me.

    Absolutely NO problem! You are more than entitled to ask me as to the reasons for my hope and faith. I have nothing to hide... and nothing to "research" in order to be able to respond. Because it is the truth. Truth doesn't have to be rehearsed... or researched.

    I don't have a name for my voice though.

    No worries. There is no requirement that you do! I thank you, though, for asking in a kind manner... and giving me the opportunity to respond to your questions... without jumping to asinine conclusions or calling me untoward names.

    Again, peace to you... and I hope my comments help!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,


  • still thinking
    still thinking
    How do you differentiate between what you are saying and what you perceive the lord is saying through you?
    First, it is rare for my Lord to say something "through" me - I am not a medium. I simply share what he says to ME... with YOU. There are times, however, when he DOES say something that is directed toward another, and I state that ("The word of my Lord to you is...").

    Aguest....If he is saying something to you that is directed toward another....isn't that the same as saying it through you? How does that make you different to a medium?

    Just offense meant.

  • AGuest

    Greetings, dear ST... and peace to you!

    A medium is one who communicates between two or more. In this instance, between one or more in the spirit realm... and one or more in the physical realm. So, for example, say, someone asks me to ask my Lord something for them... and then he responds and tell me to tell them what he said... that is a "medium." This is different from a psychic... which I also am not. That one can see/hear into the spirit realm... and delivers/visions back. I am not permitted to use my gift in either way, however - that is not it's purpose.

    That is not to say that there aren't real mediums/psychics; there are. The difference is the means by which such ones have AUTHORITY to speak/hear between the two worlds (spirit/physical). What such ones don't understand is that the "authority" by which they communicate comes from one who WILL exact a price... an incomprehensible price... sooner or later. And that price is either THEIR spirit... or that of someone they love. That he doesn't/hasn't thus far doesn't mean he won't. Death ALWAYS exacts his price... and always collects (although he is excluded from exacting and the collecting such price from those who belong to Christ - those he repurchased with HIS blood. That was the PURPOSE of HIS death - to release those who belong to him! He gave HIS life... instead!).

    Anyway, I can hear... and relate to someone... what my Lord tells me to relate. I cannot, however, ask something of my Lord for THEM (in their place). Because that places me BETWEEN them and Christ... and that cannot be. There is NO ONE between any of us... and Christ. And there is only ONE... between any of us... and God. That One is Christ, the Mediator. So, it's truly a one-way track for me.

    On the other hand, I have been in the situation where one has asked something... out loud or in their heart, or whatever... and I heard the answer meant for them... or was told to tell them. And so I share with them what I heard. But if someone asks me to ask something FOR them... I have to decline; I cannot do it. And I tell them that... and that they should... must... ask for themselves... and then LISTEN to and put faith IN the answer they receive.

    I hope this helps, dear SO, and again, bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,


  • Twitch


    Thank you for your kind responses.


    Greetings! I have just returned from going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. Things here seemed to have calmed down. Thanks you all for your comments.

    Stillthinking. NewChapter. AGuest. Twitch. OnTheWayOut. Tammy(tec)Vandahoven7. mosch. Band on the run. Shepherd. Joey Jo-Jo. SweetBabyCheezits. MrFalcon. OUTLAW. Cantleave. Deist. EntirelyPossible. BrokenPromises. PSacramento. Wobble. the-luminator81.

    I have read your responses carefully and found them helpful and well thought out. I know it’s encouraging to get a reply to every post you make but it’s not always possible or desirable for me to respond to every post. This thread addresses a sensitive subject and sometimes it is best to see which direction the subject takes without unnecessary guidance from me.

    There is subjective reality and objective reality. The person, who believes that their experience is real and involves external influence, will usually insist that their experience, although not provable is objective. Alas, improvable experiences remain subjective until they are proven. I don’t make these rules; it’s just the way it is, how our language works.

    Through debate we seek to examine beliefs and claims and see if they can become objective to the world at large. It’s understandable that those with strong convictions desire to eternalise and share their beliefs. If doing so causes them to be validated they are strengthened. If attempts to gain acceptance of these views fails, then defensive action is often taken to protect those views.

    After all, we protect what we value. Whenever we share something we value, we take the risk is that it may be derided. Those that deride on either side of the debate are simply seeking to keep their own balance and protect their way of making sense of their life and finding a path thorough this difficult world.

    Forgive me if I sound as though I am lecturing as I realize that you i ntelligent people already know all this.

    Peace and may your gods go with you

  • AGuest

    You are most welcome, dear Twitch (peace to you!). And thank YOU, dear Glad (peace to you, as well!)... for your patient accommodation here. Not too many would engage in this kind of discussion without becoming abusive toward those they don't understand... and/or disagree with. I am grateful that you didn't take that tack. Again, thank you.

    Peace to you all!

    A slave of Christ,



    And thank you to you dear AGuest.


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