What is the ULTIMATE goal of the Watchtower Society?

by MrDarkKnight 78 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest

    AGu e st how many in the Watchtower would you guess fit under the category of the "sons of God" that you speak of.

    What I have been told is none… while they're in… dear Sab (again, peace to you!). Now, I don't doubt that many hear the call while they’re in. Because that’s often when the call OCCURS. He calls his by name… and leads them OUT! So long as they continue to stay IN, however, and so “touching” the “unclean thing”, they aren’t taken IN… as sons! Because they’re still listening the “voice” of “strangers”… which those who belong to Christ DON’T do. They have to hear the call AND QUIT TOUCHING THE UNCLEAN THING... and THEN they are taken in as sons and daughters.

    So let me get this straight:


    The good news, according to your beliefs, is this (correct me if I am wrong):


    God has chosen select people throughout history, you being one of them, to make up the "great crowd" in Revelation. They come from ALL nations and speak ALL languages meaning that every single culture in history has representatives

    Not quite. From the creation of Adham, “seed” was planted in the earth… in Adham. The seed of the free wife of God, the spirit realm, Jerusalem Above. Through Seth, that seed followed a progenerative course down to Abraham, to whom God made a promise: that his (Abraham’s) seed would become a mighty nation… through ONE Seed: Christ. THAT seed... is becomes that "mighty nation"... by means of an anointing with holy spirit... the "seed" of God. Through Christ, who grants such holy spirit to certain ones... they are "fertilized" (the woman's seed with God's seed)... so that they become a NEW "creation" - sons of God, by ADOPTION. This was the "hope" held out to Abraham's seed.

    Unfortunately, Abraham’s descendent’s didn’t hold to the Covenant that established and protected this promise… and so God turned His attention away from Abraham’s line… to people of EVERY line. However, God kept His promise to ABRAHAM… by ensuring the “sealing” of 144,000 from among HIS “sons” (the sons of Israel). Together… WITH people of every nation, tribe, tongue, etc., these make up a “holy nation and royal priesthood.” My understanding is that I am Abraham’s direct seed, through Benjamin. As one of Abraham’s sons, I WAS lost… but have been found. Because of my blood… which speaks and calls out as to who I am.

    The force is strong with these ones, I mean they have more Holy Spirit

    Once they receive it, so as to be fertilized by it, yes. They are then "conceived" in the spirit. They now have God's blood (that holy spirit) IN them... which they received from Christ. This, in turn, cleanses the VESSEL (fleshly body) that they reside in, so that God and Christ can dwell IN them... through this holy spirit... this "blood" (which is also God's breath and seed - HIS life source). And it is through this blood that God speaks to them... through Christ... in THEIR blood. So, it is NOT in their head that they hear - it is within their blood and bones... if not sometimes, every fiber of their being.

    and are chosen, ultimately, based on their deeds.

    Nope. It's based on their FAITH… SOLELY... IN the One who CALLS them. They may not even know what works are required. In fact, they COULD even be constituted as “evil” by some, at the start. It is hearing… and RESPONDING (which DEMONSTRATES that faith) to the call… in FAITH… as to the call AND in the One calling them… which they demonstrate by their obedience to what he tells them to DO.

    No, it isn’t killing one’s children – that was only put out there once… and wasn’t even required to be fulfilled. Rather, it’s things like “Come to ME!”… or “Your brother is hungry/homeless/naked – feed/shelter/clothe him.” And that one DOES it… NOT because they think they came up with some idea to “do good” on their own… but because they RECOGNIZE the voice that spoke to them and did it… out of obedience to HIM. And they are honest about it – that it wasn’t something they did on their own (indeed, they’re aren’t that GOOD!)… but what another TAUGHT them to do. They give the glory to the One to whom it belongs.

    [NOTE: A good example of this is Noah's building the ark. Okay, so he "heard" something. FAITH in what he HEARD, however, was DEMONSTRATED... by his building of the ark! Regardless of whether anyone ELSE heard it or not. He obeyed what HE heard. Thing is, he was not the only one who heard: he was the only one who put FAITH in what he heard. The rest... just ignored it... denied it... blew it off... or begged off.]

    This selection process by design provides opportunity for anyone who comes across these people to treat them with decency and love.

    It is not by design… but such an opportunity occurs for ALL who come across ANYONE. It is something ALL should do… not just the Body of Christ; however, it is CERTAINLY something the Body of Christ should do! To ALL others. Because we have not begun ruling as kings, yet. And in the meantime… we are servants. LEAST ones, not great ones. Thus, we consider all others superior to us… as fellow HUMANS (not individually or because they have wealth or position… or we are “lowly” in life). It is a generally submissive attitude, yes, but it is NOT a surrender to bullying, etc. We’re not doormats, by any stretch.

    Apparently the chosen ones make solid attempts not to give others reasons to hate them, but rather protect them.

    Ummmm… yes… and no. Solid attempt not to give others reasons to hate them… for bad conduct. But some are going to hate them simply because of who they claim they are: members of the Body of Christ. Which is why MANY don’t publicly make such a declaration. Unfortunately, I don’t care as much as some what others think of me, say to me, or wish against me… based on my personal declaration. I don’t do it to garner accolades or attention. I do it because I can’t not – it would be a lie. And I did THAT… for the WTBTS. To my own great shame. I allowed SOME fear of them cause me to hide among them. And I still feel “dirty” to the day for doing that.

    God is watching how these people are being treated and is taking account of it.

    Christ is, yes. BUT… he still leaves it up to US to show them mercy. Which is one reason we should NOT judge. First, we can/will be judged in the SAME way as we judge others. Don’t want to BE judged? Don’t judge. Second, the authority given us via holy spirit is VERY serious. What we “bind” on earth… is bound in heaven. So… is we allow ourselves to hastily take offense… and RASHING judge or bind someone… it is DONE. And WE may be responsible for DOING it. I don’t know how YOU feel about that… but that is VERY sobering thought for ME: I COULD be responsible for someone’s ultimate fate. Uh-uh… don’t want it. So, rather than take offense… which COULD cause me to hastily “call down evil” on someone… I MAKE myself get over it.

    Because that person may not have MEANT to offend me, may not even know they DID, may not have understood WHAT they did and why it was offensive… or a plethora of others things that make MY hurt feelings regrettable. Yet, my judgment/binding of THEM… is “done.”

    Christ isn’t gathering “exacting” minds and hearts to rule with him, dear one. He is gathering teachable minds and hearts. Ones that can LEARN forgiveness, mercy, pity, compassion, tolerance, and things like these. They do this by becoming as small… teachable… children. As he teaches them such things, they “bear fruit” – the “fruit” of holy spirit: love, joy, peace, kindness, mildness, goodness, long-suffering, and self-control. Because those MUST be the qualities of his co-rulers.

    Because their PRIMARY functions, as kings… is to resolve matters in wisdom, justice, and righteousness. As priests, it is NOT to deliver up ones but to PLEAD... “offer up sacrifices”… for their FORGIVENESS. If we can’t learn that NOW… we certainly won’t know it, then. Our job will not be to say, “Kill them, Father, because they are wicked and evil!” Or I just don’t “like” them. Rather, it will be to say, “Forgive them, Father…” for whatever reason. Because WE want to be forgiven… and we, too, are sinners. Maybe even moreso. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know this is the case with ME.

    And yet... I have been shown mercy. Who, then, am I... to withhold mercy from ANYONE? Doesn't work that way, dear one. And so, I could never go around sharing a message of "Do what I do or you're gonna be killed/die/destroyed." What a hypocritical, self-righteous, CREEPY message! Where is the LOVE in THAT?? I can't "see" it. Never could...

    I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,


  • Nickolas

    Once again, Shelby, you flatter me with the generosity of your response to my meagre questions. Thank you. I was unaware of your subscription to the apocryphal works, though. You are multi-layered, indeed. You leave me speachless.

    Time for a double single malt (one of my very favourite oxymorons).

  • Awen

    I'd like to add something if I may.

    It was stated that Saul of Tarsus persecuted those who believed in Christ, yet he was shown mercy.

    What I want to point out is he did this while in ignorance of Jesus. Recall that on the road to Damascus when he saw Jesus in vision he wanted to know who this was speaking down from heaven to him. Obviously it was a miraculous event but he was unsure of to whom he was speaking. He didn't even know who Christ was except some human interloper who threatened to destroy that which he held most sacred as a Pharisee.

    Now then when he discovered that the heavenly being speaking to him was indeed Jesus Christ, I think he had an epiphany and realized he had been wrong all along, as had his teachers and everyone who persecuted Christians. It takes great humility for a person to admit when he is wrong. It takes an even more humility to try to right those wrongs. There was something in Saul that Jesus saw and liked. He was shown mercy for his actions which were done in ignorance and out of misplaced duty.

    I think this is the crux of the point Shelby was trying to make. Even those who deny Christ (not truly knowing him) are shown mercy. It would be UN-merciful to punish someone for their actions which were done in ignorance. How many times do we hear or see injustices done by people who "knew better" and yet they are let off the hook by our judicial authorities? We are outraged and rightly so. On the other hand what about when someone commits a "crime" and didn't know it was against the law?

    Case in point. Where I live there are many Russian students who come here for the summer. Many of them break the traffic laws (jaywalking, crossing against red lights, etc). Americans would say the students should learn the laws before they get here. Unfortunately our state laws are unavailable for their perusal in Russia. So they have to learn by asking American Citizens or trial and error. Or by default they go with what they know of traffic laws in Russia, perhaps not even considering that there are differences.

    This is the dilemma faced by anyone who metes out justice. Was it on purpose? Did they know it was wrong? How knowledgeable were they about this subject.

    Consider that the Pharisees who condemened Jesus saw his miracles (obviously sent by God) but still sought to kill him and compare them to Saul (who had never seen the miracles done by Jesus or seen Jesus himself) who persecuted his followers and by default Jesus himself.

    The difference here is the intent. The Pharisees could clearly see Jesus had some divine power, but ignored it. Saul on the other hand had only gone off of what he was told (kinda like belonging to a different religion) and acted on it. Had he known what the Pharisees had known and seen what they had seen, the likelihood that he would have persecuted Christians is very low.

    Not all Pharisees were as blind as the ones in the example. If I recall correctly, Nicodemus (a member of the Sanhedrin..sp?) visited Jesus and asked him many questions. Some accounts even depict Nicodemus as a disciple of Jesus later on, who requested the body of Jesus from Pilate so that it might be buried before sundown. He put faith in Jesus whereas the Pharisees did not.

    So I think the point of Mercy has been missed by many. The intent of one's actions depends upon whether mercy is shown or not. Was the "evil" actions based upon trying to protect someone or were the "good" actions based upon selfishness? "Evil" and "Good" being points of view of the ones doing and the ones observing. Since God is just and merciful, ONLY he can determine the person's true motives and only he should be the person to mete out punishment (if deserved). NOT imperfect humans who cannot read hearts.

    This is why we are told NOT to judge others. We simply don't have the tools necessary to make an accurate assessment of the situation.

    Peace and Love,


  • AGuest

    Peace to you... MUAH... and chin-chin, my dear!

    SA, on her own...

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    OK, Does anyone know where the money is? There must be a lot of accountants. Who has access to a balance sheet? I don't know who holds the power to dispose of assets or to acquire them. This info is never open to rank and file. I would be chastised for even thinking these things. How luxurious are there apartments. I have friends who own in Brooklyn Heights, one neighborhood away. Millions of dollars for apartments.They bought in when the property was cheap. The appreciation rate must be stellar. I'd love to live there -- not surrounded by Witnesses. I do believe the neighborhood will throw a big block party when they leave. I've read so many times about their attitudes towards neighbors.

    Four or five different people started to tell me about the Witnesses and their refusal to have fresh flowers. Imagine tacky plastic items in this neighborhood.

    I am very impressed with this question b/c we don't discuss it much. They just want to be -- as in Hamlet. (not that he wanted to be conclusively). It also reminds me of Hal in 2001: A Space Odyssey.


    What is the ULTIMATE goal of the Watchtower Society?

    Crush your Enemies..See them Driven before You..


    Hear the Lamentation of Their Women..


    ....................... ...OUTLAW the Barbarian

  • Nickolas

    OK, Does anyone know where the money is?

    Ten years ago Newsday estimated revenue for the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society at $951 million. Since it is listed as a non-profit corporation, this represents gross receipts, before expenses. It is a big business, one of NYC's top 40. Real estate and other assets? Billions, perhaps.


  • designs


    This proves that the WT Society is seriously vacant on Morals and Ethics. A Billion Dollars of cash flow annually and they close their Branches rather than turn them into Dorms for the low-income members or Senor Living centers for the aged.

  • VampireDCLXV

    Besides self preservation, I highly doubt that the WTS really had a focused objective anymore. I think that they're in disarray now and with no strong, solid leader, no heir apparent...


  • just n from bethel
    just n from bethel

    I was actually asked this question not too long ago by an elder and friend (so I thought) ...

    he said basicaly the same thing, that its not a lifestyle that many would want. Since both of us were at bethel he was trying to play on the idea that it was a hard 'institutionalized' life style of bethel that isn't exactly a 'lifestyle of relaxing ease'.

    I replied 'well first of all, some people in this world - heck, even in the organization at congregation levels, would kill to never have to worry about a job, paying bills, income taxes, health care, etc. etc. Also, as BOTR pointed out, living in multi-million dollar apartments in Brooklyn Heights is not that bad. Especially - when you're upper ranked, like the GB. They don't have the same rules as new boys. They travel the world to meet people that pretty much worship them and look up to them like some kind of Shaman. And I can promise you their apartments, while not luxurious by Donald Trump's standards, are more than comfortable. Some day they'll be able to work/retire out in the country - away from the hustle and bustle at good ol' Patterson or Watchtower Farms or whatever multi-million dollar parcel they can find.'

    Then I said 'but all that is important, but only secondary. Continuing on in their lifestyle is only secondary to ensuring the perpetuity of the organization itself. That is their purpose. And likely, at this point, power. Controlling the lives of millions and having them eat every word blathered, is something religious leaders - heck - political leaders, corporate leaders, academic gurus, all have in common.'

    I further said, 'don't get me wrong - I think they sincerely believe they have an assignment from God and somehow are truly convinced that they are putting the followers best interest at heart when they issue decrees and interpretations and so forth. But when it comes down to it, when they are presented with a choice that involves doing what's best for an individual vs. doing what's best for the organization's perpetuity - the individual will come second. You can see examples of this in blood transfusion issues, child molestation issues, alternative service/neutrality issues, and much more. The organization, that is the WTBTS, inc. interests come first - no matter what the consequence to the JW individual. Until that changes, I can't even respect this religion, much less act like it is legitimately controlled by HS, God, and Jesus.'

    He said nothing. No reply as it was obvious I was dead on right.

    So seeing here what tralfamadorian said was basically the same thing :

    That's a real philosophical can of worms there. From what I've observed from studying secular history and a bit of religious history it seems as though the goal is like most other things in this world: To not end.

    Perpetuity baby.

    And like Nick said ... Power and control.

    Those two things - it's what it's all about.

    And finally what LeavingWT said - what it's not about. That was great.

    And even Shelby, who I don't agree with nor do I have the time to read most of her posts, I get that she said the WT is not about Christ. That... I do agree with. I don't care, whether Jesus was a good person or is actively involved in individuals lives or is just a legend that stirred things up in religious idealogy. If a religion or spritual individual wanted to promote the practical help and aid and humanity and individual spirituality that supposedly Jesus promoted, and not go beyond that in controlling indviduality, that's cool with me. I can respect that.

    Now (Sorry going OT) maybe some people really do need to attach themselves to a supernatural figure in order to be a good person and have hope. To me that's not important anymore. I don't care. Because, the WT taught me was to bash everyone else's beliefs and expect them to die - or at least look down on them as crazy. I don't want to do that anymore.

    I figure, the guys leading the WT dog and pony show may even have a hidden agenda. If they can at least get the ones who walk away like me, to have some kind of hate and intolerance for other belief systems, then they still have an effective amount of control over me. I want to leave that completely behind. I don't know what that makes me, hopefully just a human like one should be. The one thing the WT taught me was to pretend to myself that I was understanding and knew what 'love' meant. They had their definitions: Agape ... etc. But somewhere lost in the volumes of books and propoganda - they forgot to teach me tolerance. I wish they did. But I'm glad I'm learning now.

Share this