Excellent thread.
Watching the Leadership Crumble
by Damn The Watchtower 82 Replies latest jw friends
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discreetslave
Jehovahsheep you are so right. The pressure put on you is too much especially for those who sincerely want to be approved by God. The days & nights I spent in mental darkness flogging myself for not being good enough. It wasn't until I allowed myself to say what if did I feel better. The stark contrast in my disposition is unbelievable. My husband refuses to believe the JW lifestyle was killing me from the inside out. The way I feel is all the proof I need.
The elders are not qualified to handle the mental health issues in the cong. The WT use to say depression was a result of demon influence, lack of spirituality, or selfishness. They finally wised up but w/ cautions on medications and psychiatrists trying to subvert your faith. The friends are afraid & ashamed to ask for help so they suffer making them more unlikely to wake up from the WT nightmare. The nights my husband spent as an elder trying to comfort those with these problems. When he stepped down as an elder to care for me, a number of the friends said to us who is going to understand us. The other brothers being longtime JW's with the field service will heal you mentality were callous towards these. The attitude comes from the top down.
Watchtower leadership is fleecing, skinning, and throwing the sheep about. Some on purpose, others out of ignorance. It deserves to crumble, Jesus said one would be better off with a millstone around the neck than to stumble his sheep. There is no excuse left for their sins and all who stay knowing this and claiming belief in God are just as bloodguilty
I tried to talk myself into staying underground I could not do it. My faith in God & his Son would not allow me. You mentioned being to scared of what is out here that is a sorry excuse which shows lack of faith in God.(1 John 4:18-19) . . .. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love. 19 As for us, we love, because he first loved . . .
JW's claim to believe in the words "God as ruler rather than men" yet their actions claim otherwise. (Proverbs 8:13) 13 The fear of Jehovah means the hating of bad. Self-exaltation and pride and the bad way and the perverse mouth I have hated. How can one damn the Watchtower and say one loves God. I'm sorry I don't mean to be so harsh you are older but all the principles about loyalty to God & standing up for the truth I learned as a JW are all the reasons I had to leave. My love of God & his Son came first. I am at risk of losing the loves of my life (husband & kids)because of my stance for what is right.
If more of the "awaken" JW's would stand by all the principles we've learned and leave Watchtower it would help expose the Watchtower for the whore that it is.
Again I don't mean to attack you. I've just gotten tired of excuses.
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cantleave
Good thread, Interesting POV Damn the Watchtower!
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MrDarkKnight
Damn The Watchtower - I feel your pain. It is difficult to watch an organization you have spent your whole life supporting slowly disintegrate before your eyes. For me it started when I went to Bethel over 25 years ago. It was there in the 124 Library that my confidence in the WTS began to slowely unravel. I read books and magazines from the past that most JWs will never see. What I read floored me. The "truth" is nothing like what was taught in the beginning, as I was led to believe. The "truth" has changed many, many, many times over the years based on the personality of the ones in charge. The "truth" turned out be subjective and open to interpretation. The "truth" is not THE "truth" at all.
The WTS leadership problem today is a result of there are no dominant personalities on the current GB or on the current GB committees or in the Writing and Teaching departments. There is no depth to the literature and no creativity or original thought. It comes through in the literature. It is milk, not meat. And if they simpify it anymore it won't even be milk.
The end of world was closer during World War II than it is now. It was closer during Cold War than it is now. The Kingdom Halls were packed on 9/11/2001 because everyone was sure all hell was about to break loose. Ten years later, Bin Laden is dead and there is really no discernable military threat to the USA. The urgency is gone. You would be hard pressed today to convince someone that the end of the world was near, that millions now living will never die.
This is the great conflict of being a Witness. I tried to live in two worlds. I preached the word, but I went to college as an adult in order to better provide for my family. I served as an elder with everything I had, but I bought the biggest home I could afford, bought a luxury car and went on expensive vacations wit my family. I taught the congregation to sacrifice for the future, but I planned a nest egg to live out my days in comfort. Eventually the hypocrisy almost killed me. Two hospitalizations, a suicide attempt and eight years of psychotherapy and powerful depression medication led me to one conclusion: This way of life is going to kill me if I do not let it go. I prefer to live and enjoy life and let the future take care of itself.
Everyone has to cope with what the knowledge that not everything they believed is true in a way that suits their nature. I would not presume to tell anyone in any forum to make the choices I have made. I have left that mentality behind. At the end of the day we all have live life in a way that suits our individual nature and we must make decisions and set goals that help us to achieve our values, whatever they may be.
Only by living a life based on values and doing all we can to achieve them can we truly be happy and help others to do the same.
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cattails
They're just guys who never lived and worked in the real world. What kind of respect have they earned?
No respect! It's more of a fear of them in their powerful positions!
But, I think you're leaving out the female element. A lot of older sisters I see are the true pillars of their congregation, they put in amazing time in service and can tell you stories of how things were in the olden days. They are the wives, the mothers and the ones who give a lot of private counsel, always letting their opinion be known, even to MS's and elders. They see some younger elders as unqualified and ignorant and in need of a talking to.
The younger generation sisters, except for some true devoted ideologically-loyal and younger pioneers much like I USED to be, pretty much just go along with things and want to enjoy the company/associating in service, going here going there and spending time together.
I also agree with Moshe in that the vast majority of Witnesses eat up the slop being fed by the GB like it is some really good spiritual meat in due season. At a hospitality get together not long ago several people brought dishes to share and one elder-sister had made this meatball in sauce dish that tasted just gross, I was going to say something to the sister I was with and before I said anything several people started saying how good and tasty the meatballs were. For X's sake they were store bought meatballs, they were in some sauce that had mild salsa and duck sauce thrown in with stewed tomatoes out of a can and hardly cooked all through. And there's this young elder who gave the talk raving about the great meatballs and how good they were. The thing was gross! Anyway, on the ride back home the sister says, "Did you like the meantballs?" And I spoke my mind. She agreed and said it was the grossest thing she'd ever tasted. Well, it's the same thing with the slop the GB is dishing out. Privately a lot of Witnesses realize it doesn't taste good, but in front of a lot of other Witnesses they don't dare say anything negative because they know there'll be back room meetings to re-adjust attitudes quickly following any transgression of the tongue.
Is the GB crumbling? Well what I'm seeing is more and more elders mentioning the F&DS, and the GB and how grateful we are for them, and laying it on really thick during prayers and inserting it during comments too. People you'd think would be more "conscious" but their tongues in public may not really tell what's going on inside their heads.
There will always be people who want things laid out for them... To be told what to do and when to do it. It takes less time worrying and thinking, yes thinking and using your brain, it's hard for people to accept the responsibility of thinking for themselves, because they are afraid of consequences, I know I was like that for quite a while. So by putting their trust in others who tell them what to do they don't have to worry about much. They're just following orders. And we know where that mentality can lead.
--CATTAILS of the "Conscious Class"
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Franklin Massey
DTW, you express yourself well. I believe there are many in the Organization who feel as you do. But pay attention to the posts on this thread. The comments reflect incredible diversity in thought. Many commenting here are still in one way or another associated with Jehovah's Witnesses. There are some agreements, some disagreements.
Yet, we're all here, in this virtual community, trying to express our views and learn to appreciate the views of others. We are having an open and honest dialogue.
That is something that is not - and has never been - permitted in the Watchtower Society. The leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses has always emphasized unified thought and behavior control. They branded it "Truth." But much of it changed. So it wasn't real truth.
What would happen if the Watchtower Society lightened the load on Jehovah's Witnesses and allowed for more personal choices to be made in matters involving behavior and spirituality? I think the religion known as "Jehovah's Witnesses" would evaporate. I think the current leadership knows this and has no other option but to continue tightening the grip.
I see why you wish for some sort of reform but I don't think it's going to happen. You represent a specific group of people within the Organization. I represent another. Cattails another. The list goes on. You have your ideals and are to be commended for your passion. But I don't think your personal vision for Jehovah's Witnesses will see the light of day in our lifetime.
That it, unless you branch out and start your own group;)
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Mad Sweeney
I would never encourage my brother or sister to leave their faith because, in truth, what is outside of the our faith is at the very least unknown and at most may lead to unbelief in God's existence.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread but I think it bears repeating based on this expressed viewpoint. You are operating under a mode of fear. Fear of the unknown. Fear of what *might* happen. Fear that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. These are human feelings indoctrinated by a multi-billion dollar publishing cult. They are expert at it but it is in opposition to God. "God is love, and he that remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him. This is how love has been made perfect with us, that we may have freeness of speech in the day of judgment, because, just as that one is, so are we ourselves in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love. As for us, we love, because he first loved us." 1 John 4:16-19
There has been much discussion of Ray Franz in this thread. He tried to stay in the organization because he loved his brothers and wanted to help them from within if possible. When disfellowshipped he wrote two books, one an autobiographical expose' of the inner workings of the organization, the other a series of doctrinal treatises that challenged the false doctrines of the Watchtower. He did not continue to play ball with the organization once he was out because he knew they were false. His chief concern were for the brothers who were trapped inside and didn't know the organization was false.
A very small number of people who leave the organization become hardcore atheists. A large portion remain independent Christians. Others join a local church that gives the kind of emotional support followers of Christ are supposed to give. Many become anti-organized-religion but maintain some sort of personal belief system. Some become agnostic and live their lives as if God, if he exists and cares, will show up when he feels like it and if he doesn't then that's just fine, too. And there are some who become atheists and deny the existence of supernatural beings altogether.
There is something important that all of those people have in common. Something, believe it or not, more important than their belief system.
FREEDOM
"You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32
The truth is, The Watchtower Society and The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses are just American corporations out to perpetuate their existence, just like all other corporations. The Governing Body of the organization are just guys like you and I. They have no "spirit direction" guiding their policies or decisions. Learning that truth, and coming to understand the thought reform or mind control or coercive influence or whatever you choose to call their indoctrination techniques, one is then able to break free from those bonds and develop a personal relationship with Christ, or join in another group of Christians, or decide for himself or herself to walk an independent path of belief that is nobody else's business.
Whichever path the person chooses, they fulfill Christ's words above.
Those who remain in the organization will always be limited in their ability to do so. I'm reminded again of Ray Franz's second book title, "In Search of Christian Freedom." Your search will be stifled within the organization. Reform is long since impossible. The Watchtower is the Titanic. There are lifeboats and there is floating debris and yes, there is the ice-cold water. Do you stay on the ship because you may end up like Leo DiCaprio?
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compound complex
Thank you, particularly posters on this page that I've just now read.
I'm overwhelmed by what you've written and am trying to absorb it. I've returned to the Hall for occasional meetings to be with loved ones. I can hardly stand it, trying to be cheerful and upbuilding.
There is simply TOO MUCH TALK OF SATAN!
Maybe when I calm down I'll comment further ...
Love,
CoCo
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james_woods
DTWT - you do realize (don't you?) that if your viewpoints (expressed so well here on several threads) were fully known to the JW elders you would be disfellowshipped as surely as Ray Franz and Ed Dunlap were?
I knew Ed, and I really think that he thought a lot like you do before he was disfellowshipped.
After he was kicked out, he realized it was all an empty illusion - full of human teachings as much as any other religion, and riddled with false prophecy like practically no other religion through the entire 20th century.
Ed came to view religion as a purely personal matter, without need of titles or organizations, in the last part of his life.
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jehovahsheep
i agree mad sweeny-if we look at the big picture the wts is a 19th century upstart sect that has promoted false prophecies and wrecked havoc on its r and f.unfortunatly we fell for their lies.