I'm new here..... Studying with the Witnesses

by PenelopePaige 160 Replies latest jw friends

  • partydelights

    @Concerned JW

    “Everything witnesses believe can be examined against the Bible as to whether they are correct or not. This is what you would do with any Christian faith therefore not a closed forum. Your perfection argument is faulty because it requires that some group are perfect now which is impossible according to the bible. People look for bible truth it is upto you to decide which group has it in this time. It is Jehovah and his word the Bible we make our commitment too as Witnesses. Jesus gave this commision to the Appostles (imperfect men) onwards to this time to gather together God's people under biblical command.”

    Before proceeding with the words “examined against the Bible”, I like to know how many times have you read the Bible cover-to-cover without using any WT articles. When God commanded the wittings of His word, he first used Moses to pen them down, and then more writers were added. All these with what purpose? That man was to read them. Nowhere did God mentioned of a specific group of people who has the absolute rights to interpret the scriptures.

    (“Faithful and discrete slave” dogma is just a WT slogan to support WT doctrines. Outside WT, no such teaching exists.)

    Personally, I took up the “neutrality stand” and was sentenced to 3 years prison. Hence I have the opportunity to read the Bible cover-to-cover at least 7 times in two languages without WT articles. These readings made it easy for me to leave WT because I can detect out-of-context quotations of the Bible. For example, the common scripture to support “anointed” ones that called out “abba. Father” (Galatians 4:6). Instead of just reading that verse, why not read the complete chapter 4 and 5. Do it. You will realize Paul was telling all Christians to reap the fruit of God’s holy spirit against the works of the flesh. Don’t tell me only 144,000 need to do so while the rest of the Great Crowd need not. Otherwise, the same scripture applies to all.

    Imperfection is fact for all children of Adam. However, please do not apply it to God’s representative, especially His Organization. While Christ died for all mankind, Christ did not die for any human institution, including the nation of Israel and modern day Watch Tower Society. So please do not use “imperfection” as an excuse for all the false prophecies made, all the broken families, all the blood-related deaths, all the abused (molested) children, ….

    For me, I studied “You can live Forever in Paradise on Earth”. The most frightening was Armageddon to come in the generation of 1914. The book told me those people were very old already. So based on a generation being 70 or 80 years, that grace period ends in early 1995. So what am I suppose to do today? God told me: “You must not get frightened at him.” (Deut 18:20-22)

    Finally, are you a person that judge based on one-sided story? Will you shun an ex-JW without knowing why that person is DF/FA? Why not do it this way. Ask the Elders why a person is DF/FA. (Of course you’ll not get an answer from them.) Ask also the person. This is the same principle WT employed when touching on religion. The best person to answer why he’s spoken against is himself. (I disagree though. Both sides of the stories should be considered.)

    While I agree there are many DF/DA because of breaking a direct law of God, there are also many who did not. For example, those who cannot agree with WT doctrines, those who were falsely judged, those who were judged but later discovered a mistake had been made, … Interestingly, the latest Elders’ secret book forbids mixing with DF/DA. Those who are warned but repeatedly mixing with DF/DA is liable for judicial themselves. What is WT trying to hide? (Is trying to protect the flock really the case? Is you spiritual interest really the top concern of WT? Or is the interest of WT the utmost concern? This forum answers my questions.)

    Note: If only a handful of hundreds says something against 7 million, then their words might be doubtful. But what if there are close to a million speaking against the 7 million professed JWs? Doesn’t a Concerned JW like you should look into the fact or fiction of these claims?

    PS: I’m in no way against you, Concerned JW. I was a “walking Bible” in my days as a JW. But today, I saw enough of WT and hence hope you soon can see as we do. While you may deem us as enemies by WT standard, rest assured my love and prayers goes with you. Well wishes.


  • partydelights

    Dear PenelopePaige

    Run. Never look back.

    If you want to understand the Bible, 1) pray for God's holy spirit for guidance 2) Read it cover-to-cover many times 3) research on the Internet. You can even ask questions here and many will be glad to answer them.

    You don't need WT to understand the Bible. In fact, WT will stunt your spiritual growth. Many found out decades too late and became athiests or agnostics. Others like my prison friend, broke down into Schizophrenia.

    While Concerned JW tries to paint a beautiful WT facade, those others here tells the brutal truth of WT nightmare. So well wishes and take care.


  • Cadellin

    Good stuff here, so I don't have much to add. Penelope, welcome. You are smart to come here. Despite what ConcernedJW says, most of what you hear on this site is NOT hearsay but first hand primary evidence from people who gave a significant portion of their lives to the WT. As someone who was raised by former missionary parents and spent several years pioneering, I will join in the chorus and suggest that you tie on your running shoes...

    As far as "JWs never claimed they are perfect," I just want to add one simple thing. It doesn't matter. That can't be used as a rhetorical safety hatch, as if it somehow excuses all their failed predictions and wrong interpretations. Rather, when the WT makes a statement, prediction or interpretation, it presents it, not as the best guess of imperfect men but as coming from God--"food at the proper time," "dining at God's table," provisions from Jehovah, direction from his "spirited-anointed" / "spirit-directed" / "spirit-led" organization (I'm sure you've heard one or more of those phrases already) and as something that is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT AT THE TIME. They even use the phrase "present truth" to describe current beliefs, while paradoxically clinging to the ontological stance that truth is absolute. There is no option as to whether you as a JW will agree, accept or obey. You will, because otherwise it is the same as DISOBEYING JEHOVAH. These two situations are presented as equivalent.

    The WT organization assumes divine authority when dispensing information but shirks it under the disclaimer "we never said we were perfect" when it turns out they are wrong. And, in my opinion, that stinks.

  • PenelopePaige

    Partydelights- Thanks so much for your story. Very interesting :) And I'm so sorry you were in prison for three years! :( But I'm so impressed that you have read your bible cover to cover three times! I haven't even read mine cover to cover once. But I plan to. :)

    You know, I was thinking about it and I think what I was drawn to with the JW's, is the structure. It's very structured and even though I do not like being told what to do and what to think, I like things being laid out for me, I've come to realize. Oh- That's no good! :) Another thing is, I find that when I study the bible on my own sometimes it confuses me more. I hope that doesn't make me sound like an idiot although it probably does. But I also liked being able to ask a question and having someone give me an answer. I think with the particular church I was raised in, that was a problem for me; asking specific questions and not getting an answer or not getting a very good one.

    Cadellin- Thank you too for your insight. and I do see from reading people's personal experiences on here that there is a lot of hurt and very damaged lives from having been in the JWs. Even though, I really am not here to bash them, because like I've said before, it comes across as all good stuff and I do see them as having "the truth" most of the time. I was talking to a guy on here who is a JW still and he was saying, and I completely agree with him, that nowadays so many churches are all about what God can do for you and not about what you can do for God. I do see alot of selfishness and greed in the world and I like the way the JW's are at least trying to do the right thing. Although when it comes to disfellowshipping and shunning, I think they've got the wrong idea. And in the end, I don't want to come out ignored and damaged, having felt that I gave so much to just be walking on eggshells and scared to make a wrong move. So my plan is to just continue on reading my Bible, reading the Watchtower literature, and trying to figure it all out. :)

  • PenelopePaige

    Concerned JW- Thank you for your side as well, like I said, I am not here to bash the JW at all. I like all of the JW's I have met so far, very much. And I see them as sincere, good people who want to serve God. I appreciate hearing both sides. Thank you. :)

  • InterestedOne

    Penelope - To help me get an idea of where you are coming from, I was wondering something: do you have a college/university degree?

  • talesin

    I do not like being told what to do and what to think,

    If you become one of Jehovah's Witnesses you will be told:

    What to wear.

    What to think (jehovah knows ALL your thoughts, and WILL judge you for them).

    What people you are allowed to spend time with (only other JWs).

    That your marriage mate is a Satan worshiper.

    You can never have a blood transfusion for you or your children.

    That your family of birth is, like your mate, a Satan worshiper.

    That you cannot join the military or sell tobacco products as part of your job.

    That you must be SUBMISSIVE to your husband, and his decisions are FINAL.

    That the only basis for divorce is INFIDELITY (yes, he can beat you black and blue, but you can't divorce him).

    There will absolutely be NO Christmas, birthdays, halloween, 4th of July, or ANY celebration except your wedding anniversary and what they call "the Memorial", which is a celebration of Jesus' death.

    That you MUST go door-to-door and 'preach the word' on a regular basis.

    If you are a smoker, you are EVIL and WILL be disfellowshipped.

    That's just off the top of my head.

    OH, and I highly recommend you do a little research on how they treat pedophiles!!!

    "born-in,,, 3rd/4th generation,,, left the "LIE" when I was 18 years old ---- IT IS A CULT"


  • Pams girl
    Pams girl

    A belated welcome aboard Penelope, Im glad you found us, and I pray its in time.

    When I found out there was a sex offenders register in Brooklyn of JWs whod committed the most heinous crimes against children and young adults imaginable, I ran screaming away from the JW...and Id been studying for 6 years.CAN ANYONE POST ANY INFO ON THIS OR LINK TO SILENT LAMBS PLEASE??? Thanks

    Also finding out the WTBTS had joined the UN (The harlot, unclean thing...) was a wake up call. This forum saved me.

    You can be spiritual without them I promise. They are a cult.

    Sending you best wishes x Paula x

  • PenelopePaige

    Penelope - To help me get an idea of where you are coming from, I was wondering something: do you have a college/university degree?

    I don't know whether to be insulted or not. Are you implying that I'm uneducated because I said that I have a hard time understanding the bible sometimes? Maybe I shouldn't have been so honest, as I guess it's made me come across as dumb? Anyway, I went to college for a little over two years but did not finish, no. I left to become an artist and have been doing that now for over ten years.

  • InterestedOne

    Penelope - No no. I was not implying anything by my question. I was literally asking about your background to better understand your frame of reference.

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