In response to Standfirm's comment about the two witness rule.

by life is to short 67 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    I'm sorry for everything you've suffered LITS. I had always tried to be a "good elder" and do what was right before God. Finally I realized that there were a lot of bad elders, bad things getting ignored, and neither the organization nor God were doing anything about it.

    I hope you have good people in your life now. This came to mind, I hope you like Coldplay...

  • Bella15

    I hate the fact that the WT believes all the acusations of sexual abuse against the Catholic church and they denied their own. The people acussing the Catholic church are grown ups now too ... the WT claim in ther stupid magazines and books that they simpathize with the catholics that were abused, they sound so loving towards them, YET, they are a bunch of hypocrites for not standing by the claims of their own children - some grown ups now. I am very passionate about this, as my niece was sexually abused by 3 different JW from the time she was 5 until 13.

    This fact is another proof of the kind of "religion" they really are - actually they are an established SECT.

  • aSphereisnotaCircle

    I guess I am a little jealous of Jaycee because she's believed by people no one is telling her 'oh it was not that bad, or the Garrido's at least loved you, look at least they gave you a tent to live in, or you could have had it so much worse, etc.' That was all the things I was told my the JW's who knew of my abuse.

    This is the part that hurts me the most too. It is an unplesant topic, no one wants to talk about it, expecially the family. Everyone wants the issue to just go away, and I dont think most of the people are aware of it, but they try these tactics to get the victim to shut up and then everyone can pretend it never happened.

    I have never received any validation from the JWs or my family over the abuse issue. They just want to minimize as much a possible.

    They must protect the image of the society at all costs, or their whole world and belief structure will come tumbling down. And they will throw loved family members under the bus, to protect that.

  • life is to short
    life is to short


    You are so right, I think not getting validation is as bad as the abuse and even worse is trying to down play what happened. I too am so sorry for what you went through, for everyone who have been treated like they have and not belived. None of it had to happen.

    I was thinking today of how I just cannot let go of how they treat the child molesters in my hall, I have been told I need to move on and I am only one voice but I was also thinking what if someone in the Hall the Garrido's attended was like me. Maybe I am not doing that much good but at least one of the child molesters moved, another quit holding children. He also moved which I am somewhat worried about because I am sure he is back to talking care of children in his new hall but I know I made him stressed out in the hall I went to at least that was something.

    I know it is just a small victory but maybe if more of the JW's in the Garrido's hall had made a fuss like I have and not let it go maybe things might have been different. Probably not though.

    Billy the ex Bethelite thanks. I know that there are some good elders out there just few and far between and when you do find one they are still afraid to but the good old boy system. We did have one CO that I truly felt was trying to help me but now I wonder as why did he not do more? I do not think he knew everything that was going on and he was leaving to go to a different assignment. I want to beieve he meant good but anymore I wonder.

    Thanks again for all of the positive support.


  • StandFirm

    There are many responses on this thread and quite frankly, I do not have the time to respond to them. I have debated these subjects ad nauseum on Topix and do not need to do so more.

    For the benefit of lurkers, and for balance's sake, I leave posting the following two links:

    Jehovah's Witnesses and child sex abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (only the sourced material remains on Wikipedia - note what is sourced)

    Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse Policy--Exposing the Myths (sure it's biased for JWs, but then isn't everyone else here biased against JWs?)

  • life is to short
    life is to short


    I just say your post from yesterday about the fact that if Jaycee had went to the elders she would have been DF'ed I had not thought of that but you are so right. The fact that she waited so long to come forward they would have grilled her and by the time the elders got done with her she would have been so mentally stressed out there would have been nothing left for the police to get out of her.


    I never thougt of the fact that Garrido confessed. You are so right the elders would have defiantly taken that "as a sing of repentance and a reason to hush it all up from the congregation." Yes it did establish guilt but so what he confessed and Jaycee never came forward for 18 years she would be just as guilty in the elders eyes as he was for not coming forward sooner herself.

    I liked what you wrote you here it is so good

    "Maybe the lawyers for the local Dept. of Children's Welfare should be first consulted and everyone should follow their recommendations above all others. Afterall, the taxpayers will foot the bill for any lawsuit Jaycee manages to win. That's not fair to the taxpayers, so let's just keep screwing her over, she's used to it.

    See how taking things to the point of ridiculousness help us see how ridiculous Watchtower rules are?"

    The Watchtower rules when it comes to child rape are beyond ridiculous.


  • aSphereisnotaCircle

    Standfirm, I encourage everyone to go to the links you posted and read what the society says about themselves.

    Im sure everyone here is intelligent enough to know that there is not a organization out there that would put in print, "yes we treat children like shit". It is only the norm that the society would have nothing but praise for themselves.

    I encourage you to read it very carefully and notice what it does and does not say, notice the loop holes. Notice how they take pride in the two witness rule.

    Then come back here and read real life story after real life story, all saying the same thing.

    Standfirm, Ive said it before, and I will say it again. You are reporting on what you have READ, we are reporting on what we have EXPERIENCED.

  • life is to short
    life is to short

    Thank you aSphereisnotaCircle with you answer to Standfirm.

    When all the victims from the Catholic church first came forward the one higher ups in the Catholic church said the same thing the WT the is saying. 'We do not really have a problem it is just a few bad priests, yad, yad, yad.

    The Catholic's tried like the JW's are doing now in intimidating the victims to kept quit, and it worked for a long time how many more victims suffered because of this we will never know but finally more and more victims stood together and they broke it open finally. It took huge courage on the part of the victims.

    Where I live one priest was raping children starting in the 50's, the church knew of it and kept pushing him around all of the 60's, 70's, 80's 90's it was not until the early 2000's that it finally truly came to light. By that time at least two victims died at their own hands because they could not stand their pain any longer.

    Now the church says 'oph's we made a mistake.'

    My elders have told me the same thing 'oh we made a mistake by allowing a level 3 sex offender to hold children sorry. We are just imperfect men forgive us." As I watch them patting the sex offender on the back saying they know Satan is testing them.

    There is no room period for mistakes when it comes to children.

    The problem with the religion of Jehovah's Witness they threaten DF'ing to the victims if they talk about their abuse. It might have happened in the Catholic church in the early part of the victims coming forward but there are just too many Catholic's who would still talk to the victim. In the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses to get DF'ed when you all ready feel worst then the lowest scum of the earth is beyond what most victims could ever handle without taking their lives. So they shut up and stop trying to fight when threatened with losing their family and what friends they feel they may have. That has to be what the men in Brooklyn and the elders are is hoping or why else do they threaten DF'ing. I have been threatened it myself by my elders, I have been told by two CO's and one DO to not talk about what I know to anyone and the brother I have spoken to at Bethel as implied it to me as well in so many words. Funny he just did not spit it out like my elders did.

    The two witness rule is insane when it comes to child rape. Anyone with half a brain can see that. The Priest where I live raped more then 70 children that we know of. Even the Priest himself does not know how many he raped as there were just so many yet there were never two witness to any of his crimes. That was one reason that one of the men took his own life as he felt he was the only one and he was just so ashamed that he as a child let this Priest do that to him when he was 11 years old. If only he could have known he was not alone.

    The Watchtower Society is doing even better then the Catholic church in trying to shut up the victims and it seem like they are working. This stupid two witness rule is truly working for them.

    Llike I said I have been threatened with being DF'ed, I have been counseled over not hurting the feelings of the child molesters in the hall, that I need to work with them in field service and have them in my car that I bought and am paying for with gas from money I earned. I have been tricked into having them into my home for meals, going out to eat with them, etc. I have been told I have to listen to them give talks in the school because my going into the back school upsets the pedophiles just too much. The fact that I am a victim of child rape means nothing to the elders only the feelings of those that have raped children matter.

    So you go Standfirm and stand on the side of this religion. I have lived it first hand and I know what they write and how things are down are too different things.


  • life is to short
    life is to short

    I meant to say how things are done are too different things. Sorry I get so upset that my fingers move faster then I want them too.


  • keyser soze
    keyser soze
    Standfirm, Ive said it before, and I will say it again. You are reporting on what you have READ, we are reporting on what we have EXPERIENCED.

    Not to mention confusing the official WT position, with what is carried out by them in practice. They can say anything for the sake of their public image. It doesn't make it reality.

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