Jesus was just a man?

by Joey Jo-Jo 96 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Joey Jo-Jo
    Joey Jo-Jo

    Im reading the Quran as part of my research, im almost finish, this is a really hard book to read, its just so dry and boring because there is no story, also wrong in many ways, there may be some true accounts in this book but I can never be sure, this is what I found about Jesus

    Miracles

    [5:110] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. Recall that you created from clay the shape of a bird by My leave, then blew into it, and it became a live bird by My leave. You healed the blind and the leprous by My leave, and revived the dead by My leave. Recall that I protected you from the Children of Israel who wanted to hurt you, despite the profound miracles you had shown them. The disbelievers among them said, `This is obviously magic.'

    called the messiah and born without sin

    [3:45] The angels said, "O Mary, GOD gives you good news: a Word from Him whose name is `The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me.'

    [3:46] "He will speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult; he will be one of the righteous."

    Before I was under the impression that they see him as an apostle but it appears that he superseeds muhammad(but somehow muhammad is their prophet even though he never spoke to god), however he is not the son of god or part of the trinity

    [5:17] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, the son of Mary. Say, "Who could oppose GOD if He willed to annihilate the Messiah, son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone on earth?" To GOD belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth, and everything between them. He creates whatever He wills. GOD is Omnipotent.

    [5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

    [19:35] It does not befit GOD that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.

    So they say that the Quran does not contradict (so it shouldn't its a newer book with one author) right? So here jesus is not a slave of god 4:172 but he is a slave of god 43:59.

    godrulz:, the only bible that really supports the trinity is the king james bible in 1 timothy 3:16, all newer bibles that use older greek texts to not support this, furthermore there are passages that indicate that god is inferior, superior or the same to jesus so the trinity was tought to reconcille these differences but the bible is quiet on this matter and probably not important, if jesus says he is the way then he is either the messiah, false prophet or texts were forget or altered.

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Beliefs are best evaluated in their historical perspective.

    The Jesus story is not unique; it is not the first of it's kind.

    Still, it is easy to understand how Godrulz has a hard time seeing it; he is in the middle of it, and is not looking at the historical origins of belief in a god/man.

    P

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    As far as every single person alive's experience goes EVERY man ever born was just a man. Any claims of supernatural origins or destinations are extraordinary and therefore require extraordinary proof.

    The "proof" of Jesus Christ's supernatural origins and destination consists of a small handful of old books written hundreds of years after he lived and died.

  • designs
    designs

    Joey- Nice research.

  • godrulz
    godrulz

    designs: His resurrection proves His claims. C.S. Lewis was a myth expert and he affirmed that the Gospels are NOT myth, but historical narrative, including the physical resurrection of Christ.

    Joey: You are ignorant of modern translations and the many verses supporting the Deity of Christ and Trinity (I rarely use I Tim. 3:16, but the context supports God in the flesh regardless of textual criticism issues). The NWT is the main perversion that systematically twists Deity verses to their own destruction. NASB, NIV, ESV, KJV, RSV, etc. etc. are primarily trinitarian scholarship and the belief can be defended from any of them. NWT Jn. 1:1 a god is universally panned by any credible scholar. Your statement is flat out false and made out of ignorance. I agree about the deadness of the Koran. It is demonic, not divine.

  • designs
    designs

    C.S.Lewis must have been on his Opium Pipe. Jesus can't even get good brakes on a Baptist Children's School Bus. He's failed every test of being real.

    Now Photons- those are real and produce verifible quantities of electricity happily powering homes and businesses all over the planet. We are working with a African Relief agency to provide Solar Powered Mosquito traps in Malaria plagued parts of Africa.

    Go with good Science you'll be less disappointed...

  • GOrwell
    GOrwell

    If the documents mentioned in the video are true, the corruption (if saying Jesus is God is corruption of what 'really' happened) of the church had to begin *very* shortly after Christs death, as Paul seemed to write his first letters in the late 40's or early 50's CE. From the video, it would seem there was an early schism of how to treat Christ, one being that Christ was just a human servant of God and was not resurrected, versus that he claimed deity by the things he did and by his resurrection.

    The question is : What did the extremely early Christians have to gain by claiming that Jesus was God?

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Designs--that is very cool what you are doing for anti-malaria efforts.

    If it was always a clear Christian teaching the Jesus was god, then why the debate just 400 years later at the council of Niceae? And why did they go with the pagan emporer's choice? I really don't care, but it's always funny when godrulz refers to us as ignorant and simpletons.

    Christ and Trinity (I rarely use I Tim. 3:16, but the context supports God in the flesh regardless of textual criticism issues). The NWT is the main perversion that systematically twists Deity verses to their own destruction

    Again godrulz, this is irrelevant. None of us are JW's nor do we use the NWT.

    relevant - Definition [rel-uh-vuhnt] (a .) Having to do with the matter in question Dictionary.com . See all 1 definitions » Joey: You are ignorant of modern translations Your statement is flat out false and made out of ignorance.

    intolerance - Definition [in-tol-er-uhns] (n .) Lack of toleration; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc. Dictionary.com . See all 1 definitions »
  • Joey Jo-Jo
    Joey Jo-Jo

    Thanks NewChapter, godrulz im just going to past what I wrote on my previous post - there are passages that indicate that god is inferior, superior or the same to jesus so the trinity was tought to reconcille these differences.

    godrulz wrote I Tim. 3:16, but the context supports God in the flesh regardless of textual criticism issues.

    No, He is the correct translation, that can mean either God or Jesus.

    godrulz wrote: NASB, NIV, ESV, KJV, RSV, etc. etc. are primarily trinitarian scholarship and the belief can be defended from any of them. NWT Jn. 1:1 a god is universally panned by any credible scholar. Your statement is flat out false and made out of ignorance.

    Wrong, NIV is more neutral while the KJV is more leading towards the deity of Jesus being god.

    NWT translation of John 1.1 as according to the explanation in KIT doesnt not pass criticism, I have no idea why you assume me to believe so.

  • designs
    designs

    Joey- godrulz comes here because the JW sites won't let him on and he wants one last crack at the JWs here who are leaving. 'Man on a mission from God'

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