by Nickolas 59 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
How important are God and Jesus to you?
About as important as the legends of King Arthur, Robin Hood or the supernatural stories of hobbits with rings and wizards named Harry.
do you feel at times just a bit envious of people with faith?
If you don't accept the notion of a god or some other being watching over his creation, then what is there to be envious about? A potluck supper once in awhile?
*pokes Undercover*
The concept of G*d and Jesus is very important to me --- that concept has caused a lot of pain.
As entities, I know they are just part of a clever fairytale concocted by smart men ages ago, that has been used to oppress and control people for millennia.
"religion is the opiate of the masses' ~ Karl Marx
Religion (g*d) is a tool for the powerful, and a crutch for the weak. ~ me
tal
My theory is that many, if not most, of these deeply pious individuals are incapable of considering contrarian evidence objectively because to do so would put their faith in danger.
I think this is ABSOLUTELY the situation for many of them, Nic.
At this time though, I just don't think its possible to conclude that there isn't a God.
Agreed, NRfG. Some believe in little green men, or garden gnomes, or demons in hell. But it should be upon those who DO BELIEVE in such things to prove it. Instead of wishing those who can't find the evidence for it to prove the negative [which is impossible isn't it?].
Sometimes I am a bit jealous of the certainty some people of faith have. But I am reminded that I have a level of mental freedom that I can live my life how I choose, rather than following the directions of a man/organization/book. To me, that's important.
I have felt that, at times, Para. But mostly, no. Freedom of rational thought is so crucial to the success of mankind, that my worries for those who believe in the unprovable, and perhaps foolish ideas that encompass what we call 'faith', is that they are both wasting their lives, and potentially, due to focus on unreal things instead of reality, they might be shortchanging mankind. [Sorry, that was a run-on sentence, eh?] For who knows what mind might hold great invention and great art and great philosophy? How many of those minds are held captive to delusion, thereby depriving mankind due to failure too explore their minds due to such influences?
Jeff [just my 2 shekels]
So Jesus and God aren't important to atheists or agnostsics?
I am shocked, SHOCKED I SAY !!!
;)
The question, Paul, was actually directed at people like you, not atheists or agnostics. But, I already know your answer. You're studying to become a theologian, after all. I also know that you are well read on the contrarian side but whether or not you are able to process what you have read objectively is at the heart of the question. I've already discerned from our previous conversations that there is little danger in me messing up your life with my own notions. But, please tell me, would your life implode if you lost your faith, or is that too much of a hypothetical question?
if we can discuss it civilly, I'm game
There are plenty of opportunities in here for civil discussion, Frank. You need only to avail yourself of them.
Hello Frank. My interest lies in understanding the dynamic so that I may either figure out a way to extricate my wife from the Watchtower or decide that the risk of destroying her happiness is too great and just accept things the way they are. Yes, I am comfortable in my atheism and I would very much like the two of us to be on the same page, but it might just be too much for her to bear.
We get to the heart of the matter here.
I have to say that I am in agreement here, Nic. How do I extract my wife from the cult without damaging her belief in God? Should I extract her? She is so convinced that I am trying to stop her from serving God that she even believes that I am Satan incarnate when I question the Society and why she is a Jehovah's Witness too much. She is truly lost in the cult, but she is also at war with herself. She cannot understand why God is the way he is and truly a lot of that comes from the Bible not her cult. Her cult just makes it even worse as they use the bad parts of the Bible to keep the flock in fear of leaving.
As for me, yeah fear of Hell has kept me from questioning too much. However, now I ask myself how I can be so sure that my Hell exists and the Muslim Hell doesn't? I'm very put off by the violence in the Old Testament and see Christian apologists sounding ridiculous when they try to explain it away. Replace the Bible with the Koran and I wonder if those same apologists will try so hard to explain Allah's faults? But isn't Allah and Jehovah / Yahweh the same god? Don't the Bible and the Koran both contain the Torah at the beginning?
Nickolas...you cannot prove or disprove that God is real...I think it really comes down to being an individual belief.
If people believe in God that does not necessarily mean they do it to fill a gap, or answer scary unknown questions. Some people KNOW god exists as surely as you KNOW he doesn't.
I don't think in the end you can argue for or against God. The only thing you can argue about are scriptures and religious beliefs and where they stem from.
I see God as seperate to ALL of this. As for Jesus, I'm still deciding what to think about that. But God is important to me.
So far no-one has answered the questions at the bottom of the OP.
