by Essan 52 Replies latest forum tech-support
Pirata had a good idea that I would have liked to see explored further. At this point the link to the site he created is dead.
So many good ideas here but never sufficient will to see them through. That's not a criticism of Pirata but a general observation of the ex JW community.
Something is in the works that might be a step in the direction that this thread treds...
We'll see.
JV
Cantleave wrote:
If we start an organisation, can i be on the Governing Body?
Right!
And then Leavingwt spoke about "Maximum Help".
I agree with the two of them.
Personally, I believe that the entire Governing Body, the Writing Department, the translators and some other people in the Watchtower have all done their best for absolute contempt. I don't think this would ever happen, but I do find they would "qualify" for criminal charges, particularly because of the bloody blood issue. That said, we need to bear in mind that there are several millions out there who are sincere in their beliefs, and they don't need destruction, but simple truth.
I find that much of that truth is already being given by volunteers.
I am concerned, however, about what will happen when people like Barbara Harrison or Randall Watters are no longer capable of telling it like it is. I am concerned about the safeguarding of the documents produced by the Watchtower, so that more, younger people can understand that and stay away from those. I'm also concerned about the safeguarding of the contents of sites like this one, or Freeminds, JWFacts, et cetera. That does require some sort of organization, maybe, or at least some coordination so that anyone interested can find the information, and no one can destroy it.
Some organized action is perhaps convenient, but I don't think it should go as far as an "organization".
Ms. Harrison has such a wealth of information on the Watchtower Documents website. I am afraid no similar collection exists in other languages, among them Spanish, which is such an important language for the Watchtower now, and the language of men and women who are dear to me.
As to this,
I think it would be more useful and practical to exist alongside ex-Mormons, ex-Scientologists, ex-Moonies, etc. under an overall ex-Cult (or whatever other name you want to call it) umbrella.
Such a thing already exists in Steven Hassan's Freedom of Mind website (http://freedomofmind.com/). By the way, I am also concerned about what would happen once Mr. Hassan does not work like he does now.
I think there is another group of people who could help. Or, at least, who should be interested. I see all this cults, the Watchtower included, as attempts agains human freedom and happiness. I think people with a sincere love of freedom, and those for a secular society, should also be happy to help. Think Pat Condell, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens. Some people would object to them because their presence could be perceived as an attack on religion for the sake of attacking religion, not for the sake of freedom.
Think Pat Condell, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens.
Better work fast if you want to get Hitchens involved. As of mid last month he has lost his voice and has reported that his cancer has worsened. It is not looking good.
dgp,
I think your fears are misplaced. New people are stepping up and speaking out every day. Every so often we will lose some of our outspoken friends due to health, lack of funds, disinterest, and other natural causes. But just go to YouTube and type in "Jehovah's Witnesses" and you will find scores of new videos - everything from well-made ten-minute documentaries to satirical, but painfully true, cartoons. There are testimonies and demonstrations, along with announcements of new books or new podcasts practically every week.
This movement is not in danger of dying. There are dozens of nominally active JWs, faders, recently DA'd and DF'd elders and others connected to the JW religion that make themselves known here and on other forums every week. They are here where they want to be, while still showing up at a KH to keep the rest of their lives functional.
I'd like to see the day (I pray I live that long) where the practice of "shunning" begins to work against itself. If the power of "conversion" ever shifts to those who have left the religion and away from the brainwashed cult followers, then maybe a faster decline of the WT will become apparent. In other words, when "active JWs" realize that THEY will lose their friends and family members IF THEY STAY IN THE CULT, maybe they will finally wake up and come out SO THEY DON'T SELF-DESTRUCT AND LOSE EVERYONE THEY LOVE.
As editor of Ex-JW.com, I get emails and contact form responses every week from those trapped inside the WT cult looking for a way out. Thank goodness there are so many wonderful volunteers that run Meetups and support groups all over the US and Canada that hold out their arms in welcome. I've referred dozens of brothers and sisters to these good folks for help and consolation.
My own connection with the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall scandal has put me in touch with so many wonderful and supportive (but still "active") JWs that admit that they finally see the damage that the WT leadership has done to once tightly knit congregations. They know we are out here and most now know how to contact us. Forums like this one, created and managed by Simon, Moxie, and many others, have really made a difference and active JWs are reading them every day. The "conscious class" among JWs is a reality.
I once told my wife that if I could educate just one "active" JW enough to convince them to leave, I would feel that all of my efforts were successful. Maybe my involvement hasn't been the only thing to get some folks to leave, but perhaps in concert with efforts by Barbara, Silent Lambs, Randy, MadSweeney, Richard Rawe, and even Kool-Aid Man, my efforts may have helped a few sincere ones leave the Borg. May those efforts continue to pay off.
We can't stop this movement. Even if some of us leave or take a break, it will continue to grow and more JWs will find us and leave the JW cult forever.
JV
It sounds like the common consensus among us is :
1) no longer treating religions as from God, but accepting true worship of God
2) no longer putting mens word first, but God's word is the end all
3) it's not about organized religion, but small group meetings at home
4) it's not just ex-jw's, but all lost sheep no matter where they're from
5) not run by money at all, just helpers in the Lord
6) not dictated by same men till they die, just those currently involved
7) and studies not from Christendom's books, just historical information.
In my opinion I think the pace is just right and we can never have too much passion. The internet and it's social networks provide a means of making anything viral. It just has to be entertaining to be considered worthy of the "top media" spots. Of course our community is definitely not short of entertainers, but true entertainment is organized entertainment.
-Sab
Hmm. I can get behind the first half of #3, all of #4 fully, the first half of #5, and all of #6. I don't even see an inkling of consensus among us regarding any of #1 and #2, the second halves of #3 and #5, or any of #7.
The beauty of this is the lack of consensus and the way diverse people with diverse ideas and beliefs - or non-beliefs - can get along well and work together toward a common goal: freedom of mind that leads to autonomous decision-making and behavior.
only 6 & 7 for me. The rest doesn't fit at all. (Or, don't atheists get to play, too?)
Nick, you're ONLY interested in JWs/ex-JWs and not other cult members? (or am I misreading #4?)
Also, even though I don't consider the Bible inspired, infallible, or inerrant, I still think there is probably some value in Christian writings that could help inform the anti-cult movement. Using their own words to overturn their organizational doctrines is a good tool, I find. So I'm not down with #7 and avoiding writings of "Christendom" (note-that's a "loaded" word in Borg-speak).
