What do People Mean Exactly By "Spirit" and "Spiritual" (page 2)

slimboyfat

What a great old thread, with tetra, littletoe and narkissos.

jaguarbass

My take on what is spiritual is.

Some people have a relationship with a higher power, God.

And the basis is not found in a book or a religion.

Kind of like the Old American Indians who talk to and about the Great Spirit.

Spiritual people walk with the God of their understanding,

They dont need a group to validate their relationship and understanding of their higher power.

Man is triune being; spirit, soul and body.

The spirit is what differentiates us from other animals.

The spirit is the hole in us that we try to fill.

with drugs, alcohol, excitement, meaning, religion and all kinds of ism's.

Its a beautiful and rare thing when you find someone who has filled the hole with the proper sized object

as opposed to someone who fills a round hole with a square peg.

@mindseye - you seem to have an understanding of "spiritual" that is increasingly common. It rejects the Judeo-Christain concept of father god and adopts a more vague idea of some ineffable force that can only be experienced. Of course that also conveniently puts it beyond contradiction.

@VM44 I am interested in how people actually defne "spirit". Its easy for a believer to assert that god is a spirit but what does that mean exactly? What is spirit made of? If we just keep saying what spirit isn't - as most people tend to do when you press them on this - how is spirit any different from nothing at all? They end up defining it out of existance.

@nicolaou - there is nothing new under the sun! I agree with every word of your OP in that thread. 5 years on let's see if there is anything new to say.

@talesin & @WaltWhitman I agree that a sense of bliss is too often linked with the suprnatural. Thank you for bringing Dennet into the discussion, he is a really interesting person. I like the idea of secular spirituality. As an atheist I too feel elation at a beautiful sight, I am enthralled by watching an infant discover the world and I am deeply moved by stories of human achievment or sacrifice. It appears that theists have caused the word "spirituality" to become so loaded with supernatural connotations that it is probabaly beyond recovery as a useful term?

@jaguarbass - you have hit the nail on the head. You assert that "man is a triune being, spirit, soul and body". But what do you mean exactly? Apparently it differentiates us from the animals but what is it? Its the hole that we try to fill - an interesting metaphor but exactly what is it?

jaguarbass

Apparently it differentiates us from the animals but what is it? Its the hole that we try to fill - an interesting metaphor but exactly what is it?

Spirit is conciousness, some people are more concious than others.

Spirit is knowing we are going to die, the animals dont know that. But animals have spirit.

Spirit is having an awareness to disbelive in God or believe in God or believe whatever you want about the past, present,

future and eternity.

Spirit is the animating principal of a person or animal.

EntirelyPossible

Differentiates us from the animals? They dream, build tools, care for their young, express emotions, make war, kill for pleasure. What makes us different? Our hips and thumbs.

cofty

he spirit is what differentiates us from other animals. - jaguarbass

Spirit is knowing we are going to die, the animals dont know that. But animals have spirit. - jaguarbass

So in what way does spirit differentiate us from animals?

A baby does not know it is going to die, does it have a spirit?

Spirit is having an awareness to disbelive in God or believe in God or believe whatever you want about the past, present future and eternity. - jaguarbass

But again a human baby has no such awareness, does a baby have a spirit?

And what exactly is this spirit? Can you say any more about it? I don't mean what does it do or what it enables us to understand I mean as a very basic level what is it?

Spirit is the animating principal of a person or animal.

Sorry what does that mean pecisely? Are you thinking about some sort of ephemeral life force? If so that is a question for science. How would we find this force, how do you know it exists?

talesin

jaguarbass

I like your comments, and would like to question something ...

Man is triune being; spirit, soul and body.
The spirit is what differentiates us from other animals.

I find this concept leans somewhat towards modern religious thought -- does not the Bible teach us that animals do not have a soul? spirit? It is very convenient (not for you, I mean for Christianity), because it gives us 'dominion' over the animals and puts us on a 'higher level'.

NA Aboriginal cultures/religion do not see it that way. Indeed, the animals are spirit guides. This would be more akin to what I feel is natural and true.

But, then, you say what seems to be how I feel ,,,

Spirit is the animating principal of a person or animal.

So, really, the main difference is "soul"? In what sense? (philosophical question of the ages, I know! what is the soul?)

Also, how do we know that animals do not know they are going to die? My previous feline companion was ill with kidney disease for some time. When she got near the end, she would go to the bottom of the steps in my apt., wanting to go outside, to be once again in nature. She had never done that in 2 years of living inside (for the previous 14 years, she had been free to be outside to hunt and play). When I took her for her needle, she calmly stayed in my arms and said her final goodbyes as she went to sleep, and death. She had never permitted anyone to hold her. It seemed like she knew it was her time to die (wish mine could be that loving and peaceful).

(not arguing, just questioning and curious to exchange ideas, even if/though we disagree, as I discuss in RL w/friends)

tal

jaguarbass

Tal I mean to say. I dont think animals think about dying.

But I truly dont know. I watch my dogs, I dont know what they think about all day.

What ever they think about they have limited capacity to act on it.

With humans evidence of thinking is when we have an idea it turns into a reality.

Man has had so many ideas that we have made this complicated material world we live in.

I dont see animals having ideas like that.

I can agree that animals know when its the end of the line.

But I dont see evidence that they think about it thru out their life.

I think spirit and soul can be very similar.

Maybe I would say you have a human body laying on a gurney dead. Thats the body, or material man.

You hook up an defibulator shock it and start its heart, its breathing but its not concious, thats soul.

Then it wakes up and says I want some fried chicen and watermellon, thats spirit.

Spirit is the animating principal of a person or animal.

Sorry what does that mean pecisely? Are you thinking about some sort of ephemeral life force? If so that is a question for science. How would we find this force, how do you know it exists?

Cofty, I dont know it exist.

And I know where your going, your an atheist so you say there is no spirit.

Being an atheist you are also a materialist. You cant put the spirit under a microscope so it doesnt exist.

Thats fine, God is for my benefit as much as I am for Gods benefit. At least thats the world I live in.

In the past I have read of medical observations of a body weighing less after death than before.

If you incline yourself to believe those observations that would be the begining of evidence of a soul or spirit.

In this society they dont make a practice of weighing the body before and after death and trying to observe minute differences

in weight so the evidence is hard to come by.

cofty

In the past I have read of medical observations of a body weighing less after death than before.

If that were true there is a noble prize waiting for any scientist who wants to organise a simple study. The evidence would be extremely easy to come by. It is of course complete nonsense.

But going back to my question, what exactly is this stuff called spirit? If an unconscious person has no spirit where does it go when we are under anaesthetic?

jaguarbass

I know one thing, If you want to believe there is no God, there is nothing I can say or do to change your mind.

I can understand and comprehend the atheist position, I could intellectually easily say I am an atheist.

But emotionally, which involves the emotion of honesty, I have to say I am honestly an agnostic.

Then if I take it one step further and throw in a dash of faith, I'm a believer.

In what, the God of my understanding who is subject to change when and if he gives me new

information.

What do People Mean Exactly By "Spirit" and "Spiritual"

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