What do People Mean Exactly By "Spirit" and "Spiritual" (page 3)

cofty

That's fine but I'm not discussing atheism v theism. I am just interested in knowing what people actually mean when they use words like "spirit" or when they say they are "spiritual".

EntirelyPossible

Being an atheist you are also a materialist. You cant put the spirit under a microscope so it doesnt exist.

I can't put a kitten under a microscope, therefore they must not exist using your logic. Absurd on it face.

In the past I have read of medical observations of a body weighing less after death than before.

Keep reading. Those attempts failed in every conceivable way. I mean, my god man, if you work our and lose weight you might be LOSING YOUR SOUL!

And honesty isn't an emotion.

VM44

what does it mean to say that a person's spirit is broken?

Is this use of a different meaning of the word "spirit"?

I haven't read any of the other posts so as not to be influenced by them, but I'll give it a go. This is just what I think, mind you. I'm sure I don't understand fully, just in part. (Though I have to say that there are different meanings of spirit and spiritual, depending on what a person is talking about.)

I would say that 'spirit' is the sum of a person - not their physical parts (flesh, blood, bones)... but rather their thoughts, hopes, dreams, attitude, conscience, feelings. "She has a gentle spirit". "His spirit is broken."

God's spirit would be the same, by my thinking.

Now if you can think of all of those things being held together without a physical body, then you also have the 'spirit' or 'soul' of a person. I can't define it as more than that because I have not physically seen a spirit being. I can only get a sense of it (feeling, knowing, discerning), because I do have a spirit. Perhaps they are not seen with eyes, but rather 'seen' (sensed, felt, known, discerned, heard - and this is what I consider listening 'in spirit')

God would fall under this - the sum of Him held together without a physical body and without the laws that govern a physical body. Christ as well. All spiritual beings for that matter - angels, demons.

However, spiritual person can mean anyone who looks to more than just physical, scientifically proven things. Doesn't have to be a religious person, but it can mean that. (I don't mean organized religion, but rather a person of faith - any faith)

Peace,

Tammy

talesin

jaguarbass

Thank you. I "get" what you're saying.

tal

talesin

what does it mean to say that a person's spirit is broken?

VM44

Your question made me immediately think --- switch 'will' for 'spirit'.

So perhaps a different meaning,,,, they have been beaten down, their will to thrive/live has been damaged.

Like when people say they are "breaking" a horse -- they are breaking down its will, taking over its choices, so the horse will be their slave, not their companion.

Dunno if that's correct, it's just what came into my mind.

tal

darth frosty

I classify myself as a spiritual atheist. I do not believe in the big 3 mainstream gods presented by religions today. When it comes to how we got here...I really do not care. I do not believe in the creation account and I will not pretend that I know all about evolution (tho I have been able to resolve some of its concepts with-in myself.)

I write this just to show that there is a difference between being a spiritual person and a religious one. Even tho I do not believe in god, I recognize mans need to look to a higher authority. Its like a left over genetic imprint that causes us to be succeptible to religious manipulations. Charasmatic preachers use the bible (or whatever spiritual book) to guide peoples spiritual gene in various ways.

I feel spirituality is a personal matter and one that should be defined once a person has experienced life, learning and come to a point where he/she can resolve with-in themselves their spiritual nature.

Religion does not allow one to define his own spirituality. It is a list of rules presented as gods path for you take it or leave it. I love it when one can transcend religion and define his own spiritualty and path in life. I think of posters on here like aguest, snowbird, tec and psacremento who have risen above religion to define their own spirituality outside of it.

You would think that most of us, having been ex JW's, would have come to understand the perils of forcing our beliefs on others. I think that is where the line of spirituality and religion is crossed. A good example of this is the contrast of Jesus words and paul.

Jesus preached forgiveness and love he had a message that calmed the INDIVIDUAL heart and spirit. His...rules (for lack of a better term) were easy to follow and beneficial for pagan and xtian alike (think good samaritan parable.)

When paul comes on the scene he took a simple message and added to it, also opening the way for future followers and preachers to add to it. Paul took it upon himself to define aspects of christianity that should have been left to the individual. Sure he tried to cage his words with such expressions like 'not as the christ says but I tho I believe I have the christ spirit.'

Religious leaders since than have been adding on their own interpretations and beliefs. Now today we have this huge chasm between simple spirituality and religions. For too long people have let religions define their spirituality, instead of them finding it with-in themselves.

I believe that all should be allowed to freely explore their spiritual path, if they so wish, and once they find it enjoy it. I do not believe they should push their spirituality onto others. Whats good for you and your spiritual journey, may not be the path that me and my experiences need.

I like this definition of spirituality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality
Spirituality can refer to an ultimate or immaterial reality;[1] an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of their being; or the “deepest values and meanings by which people live.”[2] Spiritual practices, including meditation, prayer and contemplation, are intended to develop an individual's inner life; such practices often lead to an experience of connectedness with a larger reality, yielding a more comprehensive self; with other individuals or the human community; with nature or the cosmos; or with the divine realm.[3] Spirituality is often experienced as a source of inspiration or orientation in life.[4] It can encompass belief in immaterial realities or experiences of the immanent or transcendent nature of the world.

cofty

I would say that 'spirit' is the sum of a person - not their physical parts (flesh, blood, bones)... but rather their thoughts, hopes, dreams, attitude, conscience, feelings....God's spirit would be the same, by my thinking. Now if you can think of all of those things being held together without a physical body, then you also have the 'spirit' or 'soul' of a person. - Tammy

I don't think I can.

Last time I had a general anaesthetic I had no thoughts, hopes, dreams or feelings. Isn't it just making stuff up to pretend there is such a thing as spirit that operates after the complete destruction of the body?

What is this "spirit" that exists without a body? According to Jaguarbass it can be weighed. Does it have a specific size? Are some spirits bigger than others? Can one spirit recognise another spirit, are they all slightly different?

watersprout

For me ''spirituality'' has nothing to do with religion... There is nothing ''spiritual'' about religion... That's what used to annoy me about the dubbies... Being ''spiritual'' mean't knocking doors, reading the mags, attending meetings...

I believe that we are ''spiritual beings'' trapped in a physical body... There is more to life than our existence now... There is a lot you can read on ''spirituality'' but for me it's that peace I feel when i'm connected to the spirit realm... Material things have no value (for me) when you have inner peace and tranquility...

Cofty you seem to be a very ''scientific'' minded man and I admire that... I'm too busy floating away with the fairies! Lol. With ''spirituality'' it has a lot to do with faith... Faith in the unseen and un-touchable... I understand that you have to ''see/hear'' with your physical eyes/ears... Spiritual people ''see/hear'' with their spiritual eyes/ears.

I know I probably don't make sense... But I have biscuits and tea so I'm happy.

Peace

mindseye

In a discussion like this, there's always a huge philosophical chasm between materialists and an idealists. Materialists value observation, things that are quantifiable, metrics, etc. Idealists often value ideas, intuition, subjective experience. How can you measure the experience of hearing Beethoven for the first time, seeing a Kandinsky painting, being moved in church? There may be certain psychological explanations, and neuroscience is shedding new light (a-hem, never used that phrase in a while) on consciousness. But overall, quantifying a subjective experience defies the scientific method.

Basically, if you want it boiled down to rational terminology, spirit is life. All living things are animated with life. Spirituality comes from consciousness - in our evolutionary history homo sapiens developed this high level of awareness of the universe and their own mortality. Humans began to express this awareness through language, art and religion/spirituality.

But I'd argue that we're not all that different from the animals, we are all connected. There are scientific arguments that most animals have some level of consciousness - but humans do have a high level of consciousness that allows them to appreciate a highly aesthetic/philosophical/spiritual experience.

What do People Mean Exactly By "Spirit" and "Spiritual"

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