by corpusdei 122 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Prodigalsnot:
Where does the Bible say we are gods or divine? It calls some delegated evil judges, false 'gods', but not God by nature (Gal. 4:8).
One possibility is that Judas hanged himself on a tree over a cliff and the branch broke causing him to fall to rocks below spilling his guts. Plausible, even if argument from silence. The issue is that he died more than how he died in detail. There is also no silver issue.
Knock yourself out with this, Godrulz: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/116729/1/The-Evolution-of-Judas-Iscariot
Might cause brain damage/overload. Reader's Digest version? There are more important topics than this.
LOL. And you think you're more right than the Witnesses? Talk about the blind leading the blind...
JWs are wrong on many biblical truths, dead wrong. Yes, my doctrine of God and Christology is more right, objectively, than the JWs. The Judas issue is debated in Christian circles, but it is not a salvific (necessary for salvation) issue, just a peripheral, nuanced theological debate (Calvinism vs Arminianism, etc.). Any given belief can be examined objectively in light of Scripture and reason. False views (like JW Arianism, blood transfusion fiasco, false prophecies, etc.) can be refuted and sound doctrine can be defended (biblical exegesis, biblical theology, etc.). JWs frequently proof text and display ignorance of original language studies, etc. They rely on a pathetic sectarian translation and aids that indoctrinate them into wrong views. They cannot think independently nor credibily and trust shoddy pseudo-scholarship that is often dishonest (misquoting sources, etc.).
Again, is the link a pro-WT view or just this person's opinion (whatever it is)? After a quick scan, I doubt this is the poster's original writing/research. Should they have credited another source and is there plagiarism or copy/paste here? If it casts doubt on the inspiration of Scripture, it is probably a liberal source that is refutable. Something smells fishy, but it would not be worthy refuting in detail since the credibility of Scripture does not rise or fall on the Judas issue (which is historical narrative; I would agree that OT verses are used illustratively about Judas vs raw predictive prophecy).
what was the big betrayal then? it's not like jesus was hiding and noone knew his whereabouts...
or was it a "i am jesus", "no, i am jesus", "no, over here, i am jesus" situation and judas picked the real one out of the gang?
will the real jesus please stand up
Prodigalsnot
LOL!!
Where does the Bible say we are gods or divine?
I say, 'You are gods; you are all children of the Most High ~Psalms 82:6
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? ~John 10:34
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. ~John 14:12
He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain,
'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." ~Matthew 17:20
One possibility is that Judas hanged himself on a tree over a cliff and the branch broke causing him to fall to rocks below spilling his guts. Plausible, even if argument from silence.
The issue is that he died more than how he died in detail.
You said this is historical narrative. Why do we have to guess? If this was any other subject than the Bible,
this would be thrown out by any editor worth his weight in horse manure.
There is also no silver issue.
Matthew 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
And they took the thirty
pieces of silver, the price of him
that was valued, whom they of the children of
Israel did value; 10 And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.
Problem is, Jeremy (Jeremiah) never said this. It came from Zechariah:
Zec 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that
I was prised at them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver,
and cast them to the potter, in the house of the LORD.
This is the word of God right? Seems God can remember the names of all the stars but not his own prophets.
J. Hofer said:
what was the big betrayal then? it's not like jesus was hiding and noone knew his whereabouts...
or was it a "i am jesus", "no, i am jesus", "no, over here, i am jesus" situation and judas picked the real one out of the gang?
will the real jesus please stand up
This is exactly what I have been wondering about for about 40 years or so.... why did the authorities need Judas to point out who Jesus was ???
Even better yet, with all this ruckus that Jesus raised, why didn't a single secular historian notice any of this?
Might cause brain damage/overload. Reader's Digest version? There are more important topics than this.
LOL. You're talking about Leolaia's scholarly demolition of the Judas tale.... oh yeah...too much fact and not enough fiction over there.... we have more important BS to sell!
Could this be why the Watchtower forbids the dubs from a higher education?
The Ps. 82 context is using 'gods' as a delegated authority of judges. They are rebuked for being unjust and false gods. This is not an argument for the divinity of humans (Mormons use the same proof text for their exaltation to gods theory, but it is not saying what they think it is; this is the original lie of Satan in the garden; there are so-called gods, false gods, but only one true God; creation is ontologically distinct and different from God/Creator).
The Bible is selective history. The Spirit did not deem it necessary to say that Judas hanged from a tree over a cliff. There are many other places/truths that do not go into even more important detail on any given subject. This lack of detail does not negate the truths of the statements that are not contradictory. It is not an argument against inspiration.
There are other places where two contexts are spliced and credit is only given to the major prophet. This is a convention of the writer, not a contradiction. Matthew saw these events as a fulfillment of a Jeremiah prophecy (it is not necessarily predictive prophecy, but using OT verses by way of parallel illustration...as seen in other contexts, even about Jesus...again, a convention used by the Spirit...the context about Jesus in Egypt seems out of context, but it is parallel and is applied as an illustration, not as absolute prediction). Matthew quoted primarily from Zechariah (close resemblance; there are also issues with Septuagint vs Masoretic text at times). But there are also similarities between Mt. and Jeremiah's ideas in Jeremiah 19:1,4,6,11. Mt. referred to Jer. because he had both prophets in mind, but only gave credit to the major vs minor one (cf. Mk. 1:2-3 where Mark mentions Isaiah/major, but quotes from Is. AND Malachi).
Another possible explanation is that Jeremiah, in the Babylonian Talmud (Baba Bathra 14b), was placed first among the prophets, and his books represented all the other prophetic books.
