Where do you think the US is headed?

by 2pink 64 Replies latest social current

  • diamondiiz

    One more point to consider about the world. The freedoms you are loosing in the US, most of the people in the world don't have and only dream to have. The erosion of safety is also lacking to most of the world so however bad things seem to be getting in US they are still better than what the majority of the world enjoy. Some say China is the future, but would you really like to live under Chinese government? While the next 10-20 years may be rough, it most likely will be better than most places on the planet. I recommend you read The Fourth Turning, it gives some good examples of human cycles and how there is a re-birth of societies every 80-100 years. It's an interesting read, written by two professors from Harvard if I remember correctly. It does appear that the old system is dying and new one will come out of it as it did in post great depression. How different financially the world will be we don't know, and how the energy will affect us all, we still have to wait and make our lives best we can wherever we live. If you really think of moving to another country research the people that left that country and ask them why they left it in the first place and do they think they did the right choice.

  • eruption

    Your country,s debt is STAGGERING, YOUR over-run buy wetbacks, and other immigrants that are a massive drain on your public services and economy. Your gun laws, or lack of them, contribute to making your country the worlds number one for murders. YOU have NO universal healthcare for your people.China owns your country. Thats the down side.

    On the plus side, although you dont have the best armed forces, they are the strongest by some way, this allows your polititions to kick ass and that allied to your debt, gives your country considerable leverage.

    Just a final point, how bad must the surrounding countrys be, that thier people want to live in the USA ?

  • FlyingHighNow
    Just a final point, how bad must the surrounding countrys be, that thier people want to live in the USA ?

    Very bad. And most illegal immigrants have no idea what the reality of living here will be, before they get here. A lot would rather stay home, but feel forced to leave for one reason or another.

  • dgp

    I agree with Flying High. Most immigrants, illegal or not, really don't know what they are up to until they get there. The lazy ones, by the way, return to their countries of origin in a matter of weeks or months. They were duped by TV to believe that you don't need to work hard to achieve that standard of living, and "the sad reality" makes them return. I happen to know one person who chose to return to his country of origin, "the capital city of the world", as he calls it while he sips his rum and balances his weight in his hammock, instead of enduring another cold Canadian winter.

    2Pink, I agree that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes and their children live on the budget. But they do work, and the value of their work is not just the salary they are paid, but the portion that is retained by their employers as well. They don't send just money to their countries of origin; they also send goods back home, which were usually made in China but sold by a local company. They also count as a market for local sellers. Illegally or not, they buy food or clothes, rent homes, burn fuel, watch a movie, et cetera. Illegal aliens don't pay income taxes, true, but I wonder if all other taxes are not included in whatever they buy. What would happen if all those immigrants left America and the country lost a market of, say, 40 million people?

    I think you're very right in saying that you support your children.

    I hope my strong opinions have not removed from sight the cold fact that America needs immigrants. This is, I believe, part of the answer to the original question about where America is headed.

    Many people are of the opinion that much is wrong in America today. People disagree as to how to solve it, or whether it will, just as outsiders disagree on whether American weakness is a good or a bad thing. In my opinion, the immigrants are not the problem, but part of the solution, as bad as that sounds. I think Americans need to know the true causes of their problems if they are to solve them.

    Much is said, for example, about jobs being sent to Third World Countries and being lost in America. Do you think that has a relationship with sale prices in America? Sometimes. If I'm not mistaken, Apple pays essentially peanuts for every iPod made in China, but they are certainly not sold cheaply in this country. Why is that? I don't think the jobs being sent to China are the real problem. Who says those jobs couldn't have stayed in America if Apple had agreed to earn less?

    By the way, China has a disastrous effect on many other countries, too, that don't have the might of the US and therefore can't negotiate with them. Latin American peasants complain that China has effectively wiped out the entire local production of garlic.

    I beg to disagree with Diamondiz in this regard:

    If you really think of moving to another country research the people that left that country and ask them why they left it in the first place and do they think they did the right choice.

    American expatriates don't like the living conditions in other countries, but they are usually at an advantage if they move elsewhere. First, their money may be little in America, but it buys them a lot in poorer countries. They have a business acumen and a know how that is missing in the local economies, and they may leverage their knowledge for their great benefit. I know of one gentleman who left San Francisco with a yacht, and is now a prosperous entrepreneur and hotel owner in the country he chose. One not so insignificant advantage is that other Americans prefer to do business with Americans, and that helps expatriates create profitable ties with their countries of origin.

    This being a forum for Jehovah's witnesses or former Jehovah's witnesses, I am sure that some of you may have already met a "need greater" who can tell you about this advantage much better than I.

  • botchtowersociety

    US is on a downward trajectory, but right now it isn't the fastest faller....

    Small consolation, I know.

  • diamondiiz

    dgp: What I said about asking people who left their country about the reasons is a very valid one just as you would want the jw studies to ask those who left wts world. Canadians may find that everything is so much more expensive here than in US. Australians may find their homes being overpriced and may live better in US due to them selling their home and similar example can be heard from those leaving Britain for North America. On the other hand you may hear that the developing countries require bribes to get things done, or there are problems with drug lords in the area or mafias. Personally, I would move to some South American country and never work again for the rest of my life but my wife doesn't want to. It's good to know the possible problems of your future destination before you move. Visiting a place on holidays is different than moving there. I think 2pink mentioned Australia and obviously they would have to pay more for home there than in US and starting a business would be more costly than in US BUT knowing that may not stop anyone from migrating just knowing the facts is an advantage before arriving and realizing the realities of life are not what one expected.

  • 2pink

    diamondiiz-thanks for the book recommendation...i will definitely check that out. i'm absorbing as much info as i can at the moment (which could be why i sound like a raving lunatic going off on so many tangents).

    a few posts have mentioned china in a somewhat negative light as if they are the US's undeclared enemy...funny as this is one of our top choices of places to emigrate to. one of our children is adopted from there, and i've spent a fair amount of time in the country. no, it is not the US, no it is not a "democracy" (but can we even call the US that at this point? really?) and no it is not familiar in the least. but it works for some one billion people. and it has worked for a very, very, very long time. do i think they have everything right? no. no country does. does it have nice weather or pleasant smells? hell no, LOL. but like i said, i'm looking for stability for my kids and their future and from the looks of it, china has a shoe in on the forseeable future. the US outsources everything these days...we are a good for nothing but consumerism country, and the bottom is going to drop very soon. china is producing pretty much everything the world needs right now....that's huge in terms of stability if you ask me. they are doing the work legally to produce goods that the rest of the world demands. you can argue that they "steal" jobs from other nations, but the fact is, it's done legally and is negotiated by big business. i think the chinese themselves are doing nothing wrong...they are working for honest wages legally and they happen to work for much less in that country than we do in ours. dgp, i agree again that the ones we need to direct hostility towards are the big business owners...apple is raking in who knows how much more by having their products assembled by the chinese when they could take a margain off their own profits and give the jobs to americans. who's to blame there? again, greedy big business. it's sickening and really shameful. these guys have been running their own country into the ground for their own personal temporary gain, exploiting others all along the way.

    and a valid point that of course economies in different countries will be different. we'd certainly pay a lot more for a home in sydney than our home in california, BUT it's really relative because wages there are much, much higher than here. so, kind of a wash if you ask me. we'd just have to travel to china once a year to buy clothing and other small goods.

  • dgp

    Diamond, I'm sorry if I sounded too harsh, but my point was not to disprove what you said but rather to look at it from a new perspective. If you ask a Mexican immigrant why he left Mexico for the United States, he will most likely give you an answer based on what his own life was like. He doesn't have your perspective or your means; where he sees no opportunities, others could. Conversely, the Spanish youth see no opportunities in Spain right now. Latin Americans moving there in droves to work in agriculture don't understand why they complain.

    Personally I met this gentleman from Spain who sold his house in Madrid and moved to a Latin American country. He had a quarter of a million US in his pocket. The people who live in that country would need to work like two decades to amass that kind of money. He opened a business there, maybe one that others could envision but didn't have the money to set up, and is doing very well.

    But, as to where the US is headed, I cannot say, but one thing is sure: unless something extraordinary happens, China will continue to rise, and so will other countries, such as India, Brazil, Russia and South Africa. Also Mexico, Turkey, South Korea, Colombia, maybe Indonesia and perhaps Nigeria. That means the United States will not be the sole superpower as it grew accustomed to be. Americans will also need to work harder because competition will be strong.

    My simple solution would be that Americans need to work hard to improve with respect to themselves. Like the Swedes or the Germans now do.

  • d

    I agree but I lost faith in this country and see it as doomed.

  • Dune

    Eruption, your need to use racial epithets diminishes any value your post may have had.

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