Where do you think the US is headed?

by 2pink 64 Replies latest social current

  • manthedan

    war and economic collapse...but i am not afraid anymore

  • dgp

    Well, I think I would need to give a disclaimer first: Many of my relatives would be among those bad immigrants who have drained the American soil off its money to send it home. My bias being made known, maybe I cannot answer your question, but I can offer some comments.

    First: I suppose your question actually means something like "everything is bad in this country and I don't see it improving in the near future, or even in the distant future". You can say that about most countries in the world at the time, and certainly it has been possible to say that about many countries, for a long time now. Many a country would want to have the kind of economic problems the US now has. So, in relative terms, your despair might appear to be like nothing for many a president. Does malnourishment keep your kids as midgets, as in much of the "developing" world?

    By the way, in case anyone forgets that, it was American politicians and banks that created the current world economic crises. From outside, American politicians and financiers appear as very crooked and very stupid, at the same time. One can help but wonder how it can be that the World Bank is lead by an American, and the IMF by an European, those being countries that have actually shown the world what NOT to do. In Spain, Zapatero has just been punished by voters. But in America you can't punish Democrats or Republicans, since, well, there are no real alternatives to those parties. I wonder if anyone could actually believe that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans anticipated what kind of a crisis would come. But who else would you take to office? And, since America is so powerful, what can other countries do if Americans elect a dunce to office? Say someone who sends troops to an Arab country to find weapons of mass destruction, only no one finds them?

    Americans may be used to the feeling that no one can actually beat them at anything. Except, perhaps, at cooking. The fact that much of the world is catching up is not bad news, unless you want to continue to be the top guy and expect everyone else to be second, or third, or umpteenth, forever. You could almost say that you want other countries to know what their right place is. When America was fabulously rich compared to everyone else, of course Americans had a feeling of primacy. The fact that others have lifted themselves out of poverty does not mean America has lost any ground; only that it now has competitors, and that, inevitably, sometimes it will not win. Britain and France (and Spain or Portugal) have taken the loss of their primacy with a better spirit. So has Russia.

    Canada is a very nice country with no dreams of superpowers. They happen to feel they live next to an nosey, interfering asshole neighbor country.

    Those immigrants you despise that much are there because America benefits from their presence. The money they send home is not something they stole from anyone, but the surplus of their labor, that, unless I am wrong, they may spend as they see fit. Highly trained Indians and Chinese probably do the same as Manuel the manual laborer, only that, in their case, the advantage and prosperity they bring to America is easier to see. Whatever you think about immigrants, and whatever their level, America would not be better off if those people were not there and didn't send their money back home. In case anyone doesn't know that, the fact that Mexico, for example, enjoys such a high level of remittances for the United States is no doubt linked to the amount of goods that country imports from America. Take those remittances away and then a good deal of American exports would be gone, too.

    Foreign Affairs is a reputed magazine. The November/December 2010 edition, "The World Ahead", contains an article by Mr. Nick Eberstadt, "The Demographic Future". In that article, Mr. Eberstadt holds that "The United States will avoid the demographic stagnation and decline that faces most other OECD countries." Why? "The United States demographic exceptionalism is explained by the country's relatively high fertility rate and its continuing influx of immigrants". In other words, whether you like it or not, America needs immigrants to continue to be a world power. The other solution is having more American women having more children. Which they don't want to do. That is something Latin Americans do; they breed.

    By the way, are you thinking of becoming an immigrant into some other country and perhaps send your money back home?

    Other countries are catching up with the United States because they have invested better and more heavily in training their young. You'd be surprised to know that, for years, Latin Americans looked down on American high school graduates for the simple reason that the average American student knew a lot less than the average Latin American high school graduate. Of course the situation was very different once those students entered college, and I am not sure Latin America has any advantage anymore, but the decline in education is something America could handle very well. Other countries have done a lot more with a lot less.

    As to this comment of yours:

    i feel that the US uses its power to act arrogantly and irrationally and stick its nose in places it ought not. we are like the nosey, interfering asshole next door neighbor that no one likes!

    I may reply that you live in a land that the nosey, interfering asshole next door neighbor took from the country where so many of those despicable immigrants who drain the budget and send money back home are from. So was the case with Texas, Arizona and New *Mexico*. The state of Colorado is named with a Spanish word, proof that native English speakers gave it that name originally. The same with Florida. By the way, what were white, English-speaking settlers in Texas before Mexico lost that land? Immigrants?

    And that, yes, this is an opinion that many have had about Americans for a very long time. With plenty of reason. I personally feel concerned about the rise of dictatorial powers such as China. I feel that we might end up in a much less democratic world if the bastards at the top of that pyramid had their way. But, in a sense, one can be glad that America is no longer capable of imposing its will anywhere just as it pleases. Lord Acton said it so well: "power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Why is it a bad thing for mankind if the government of one single country can't police the entire world? So your feeling of loss is somebody else's feeling of relief. Sort of.

  • FlyingHighNow

    Ballistic, sink your teeth into one, they are far more fascinating than you dream. But to simplify it, the wealthiest few are stamping out the middle class. The America we grew up in is gone and it will only get worse.

  • prophecor

    43The alien who lives among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44He will lend to you, but you will not lend to him. He will be the head, but you will be the tail.

    We have a scriptural principle that gives reason as to why people are coming into this country as they do. I've had the opportunity to work with foreigners who do the jobs Americans refuse to do. I see why they have the ability to get above and beyond the average American. They have a work ethic and a passion for the things we in the U.S. take for granted. They will work, oftentimes, two or three Penny Annie Jobs, just to make up for one good one. They recognise the value of dilligent hard work, and they put thier back into it. Look at how the foreigners come to this country and open up stores, businesses and thrive on the American dollar. These are the ones who will be assuming the role of power in the near future. Politically, financially and otherwise.

    If you read the entire chapter of Deuteronomy 28, you'll see all the blessings God promised for those who would walk in obedience, as well the consequences one would be in line for if they chose to go their own way. God's rules and regulations will not go ignored, indefinitely. You may not pay today, but somewhere down the road, we all will have to answer to the highest authority in the universe.

  • diamondiiz

    You're wrong about 1 trillion in debt as the national debt stands over 14.3 trillion and the government is trying to raise the limit before they have to raise it again. Said that, you are correct the future looks bleak for USA as a nation. Unless they start bringing back the jobs they exported to third world countries and they actually cut the deficit there is no real future for US as it stands. As is, the debt is unpayable, the deficits are unsustainable and the obligations are putting more burden on the government by the day as baby boomers have began to retire. To top this off, US government seems to be interested in wars they can't afford, large government that they can't afford and hope thata foreigners will continue to support their spending which is drying up since the Fed has been purchasing US debt and plans on stopping at the end of June. You better hope the foreigners start buying more of that debt if the Fed stops doing so or Q3 will be announced very shortly after June and the dollar will continue declining as most likely scenario which will continue moving the markets higher and especially the commodities which will translate into the inflation that the government keeps telling people is non-existant or is just temporary.

    Problem is, without gold backing dollar is backed by pure faith in the government and unfortunately most of the commodities are traded in US dollars so the dollar is still important in the world affairs and the ONLY reason IMO why US has not gone through the quicker collapse. As for other countries, well I think we'll all be in similar boat as no ocountry wants their currency to skyrocket as US dollar collapses which should translate to global inflation as countries try to keep their currencies from rising too quickly. Commodity export nations are still best bet. Canada, Australia are probably one of the top due to that aspect but neither is immune from inflation and the affect of the fall of US.

    I doubt US will fall too quickly but it wouldn't surprse me if there was civil war after dollar collapses, maybe they will replace the currency with new bills backed by gold or who knows what they may try in the long run. The next 10-20 years I'm guessing will be rough ride for the American people and for most western countries - east has somethings to lose but not the same degree the west has. A poor nation will never feel the pain as when a rich nation turns poor. Hold some gold coins (silver is semi precious and will never be viewed on the same level as gold) and hope to ride out the storm. Grow a garden which will help a little with rising prices at the grocery store. Have a valid passport just in case and keep on top of how US dollar is doing.

    Most of the above is in regards to inflationary future while it's possible deflation can occur I doubt the government nor the Fed will allow that as it was demonstrated after 2008 with Q1 and then Q2 thus I would expect Q3 in some form with a possible different name be announced later in the year especially if the markets continue to trend downwards as they've been for the last couple weeks.

  • 2pink

    of course people are coming to the US in droves because the current situation here is 1000x better than where they are coming from. i get that. but that's not my point...yes things are ok here at the moment, but my concern is for the future.

    dgp-i'm sorry that you clearly took offense to my comments about immigration. of course i do not "despise" a group of people as you insinuate or find a group of people "despicable". yes i am well aware that americans stole this land from many peoples, native americans and mexicans among them. yes, that is a VERY embarrassing and sad part of our history. i recently took 2 history courses and was further saddened by the details i learned. however, it happened and i cannot change it. currently, i do not blame many people for wanting to come to america to get respite from their current situation in their homeland. what i do find wrong about it though is that it is done ILLEGALLY and is becoming a significant drain on our already sinking ship of a country. most immigrants who come here are poor...so we are admitting over a million (at last count) ppl per year to our society that is already challenged with poverty of its natives. i happen to have sitting in front of me a document for a class i'm in...it's a FAIR document written in 1996 (so numbers will be off from current ones...but just as a convenient starting point) but it places the NET cost of immigrants at $65 billion per year (again a 1996 fig). the document additionally notes that 1.9 million americans are displaced from their jobs every year by immigrants who will do the jobs for less money, all for the benefit of big businesses getting a bargain of course. the cost for providing welfare to these displaced americans is over $15 billion. i think that the solution would be to make these immigrants become LEGAL and treat and pay them as americans. i'd see only benefits coming to our country and to the immigrants that way. and btw, i have 3 kids, 2 adopted internationally who look different from me and have different skin so in no way am i discriminating racially here...this is not a white vs other skin color discussion for me. and as a matter of fact, my own children also happen to be IMMIGRANTS themselves...so to insinuate that i hold this group as "despicables" was very presumptous of you. the difference is that my children are LEGAL. and no matter what country they end up being raised in, they will be taught to respect its laws and work to benefit it. oh and no, i don't plan to emigrate elsewhere and send money "home". i'd legally become a citizen of the country and then work to build it up as my home.

    i dont think that the US must be the top dawg...or feel that i need to live in the top country. i am the least competitive person you will ever meet. i despise that arrogant attitude displayed by our country so much...that they think they are the best (except cooking---you're so right there!). i thought i conveyed that in my first post but i guess not...i do not like that proud attitude and realize that it has contributed greatly to our rash decisions in international affairs and hence the bad taste we are leaving in everyone's mouths. i actually want to live in a country that minds its own business and flies under the radar. mostly, i just want to raise my children somewhere SAFE. i want to raise them where they will have a future, in a country that isn't hated by a large portion of the world and that isn't in shambles by the time they are 25. i realize every country experiences its ups and downs...that is life. but i just feel that the US is headed down a very bad path very quickly, and if i can move my family to a safer more stable location, then naturally i would like to do so. if i could spare my children living through what i think is the imminent fall of this nation, then yes, i would like to do that. my husband's job has the possibility of relocation to australia, so that would be an option for us...if they let us in. they have immigration control!

  • 2pink

    diamondiiz-thanks for pointing out that typo......writing 2 papers full of statistics, and then taking a break to drink a beer and post on JWN isn't really conducive to getting the numbers straight is it?

  • FlyingHighNow
  • FlyingHighNow
  • FlyingHighNow

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