Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.

by designs 82 Replies latest social current

  • designs
    designs

    botch-

    The location and range of enemy missiles is one reason the exact location of a Border is less relevant than it may have been several decades ago. What is a wakeup call for Israel is a few Million Arabs doing a March on Israel Territory (ala MLK syle I hope) but forcing a long overdue issue of land for peace. Israel doesn't have the military force necessary to block such a demonstration nor the moral will to shoot peacefull demonstrators as Syria does so negotiations become front and center.

    The Saudi Prince, 26th wealthiest on earth, said something similar about his own country's monarchy, they had better start treating people with freedoms and land rights because they to couldn't stop several million Marchers.

  • designs
    designs

    Is the President trying to get ahead of an obvious clash that Israel is heading towards with the Muslim world's uprising toward Democracy.

  • Curtains
    Curtains

    I have found that there is corroboration for justitia's findings regarding the 1967 war on ebsco. THis should be open to anyone who has access. Some of the articles are also available generally. I can only imagine that one or two on here, who shall remain nameless, only read propaganda that supports their own particular affiliations .

    I also think that it is fairly inevitable that Israel will have to cede.

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo

    For those in Britain or with access to BBC TV...don't know whether or not you can get replays on the internet if you're outside the UK but worth a try...the BBC journalist Andrew Marr interviewed Obama on his programme "The Andrew Marr Show" on BBC1 this morning. It's well worth watching, as is the discussion that followed. (And how nice to feel uninhibited about getting involved in matters of the world.)

    What came across most strongly to me was that Israel would be much better off in the ong term if they did deal peaceably with the Palestinians, but the general feeling expressed was that Netanyahu was most unlikely to give any ground at all, and that there are so many pro-Israeli politicians in the US that Obama had a real uphill battle before him in trying to persuade Netanyahu to look at things from a broader perspective.

    My own view? I think that the way Israel was created was very hard indeed on the Palestinians who had their farms etc and had lived in their communities, with their extended families, for generations, always thinking they were in their own land of Palestine and then were basically told sorry, tough, we are giving your land to make the new country of Israel. Tough. Not good. And I say that with every sympathy for the Jewish people who had suffered so much and been displaced for so long.

    I don't know what the answer is but I'm quite sure that the one that was found was not ideal, and that no long term solution to the Middle East problem will be found until a more equable solution is reached, one that embraces the rights of and gives dignity to all the many peoples of the area. The wealth and militaristic stance of israel don't help.

    Just my view.

  • shepherd
    shepherd

    I am not American so I have not been subjected to the endless propaganda supporting Israel.

    I prefer a democratic state where Israel is now. Israel is a Jewish State, which by its own definition makes it a racist state. There are elections in Israel, but it is not democratic - Arab Israelis do not have an equal voice and the Jewish majority is protected in its constitution. Israel is not democratic, and therefore has no right to exist in its current form in my opinion.

    Quoting some old biblical right has no meaning to me - this is the 21st Century and democracy not theocracy is the government of choice.

    The question was about ceding land, but it's not their land to cede or hold on to. The settlements they have there are illegal. Only Israel says they are not. Even though the USA will always veto in the Security Council (Often they are totally alone when they do so - the UK votes against the USA on it) Israel is still breaking International law.

    I think it was brave of Obama to move in line with the Quartet, the EU Russia and other interested parties, brave but meaningless. Israel knows in the end it can do what it wants, they can even even tell Obama to F$%^ Off to his face and the USA will still back it in the end because their lobby is so powerful there.

  • drewcoul
    drewcoul
    I prefer a democratic state where Israel is now. Israel is a Jewish State, which by its own definition makes it a racist state. There are elections in Israel, but it is not democratic - Arab Israelis do not have an equal voice and the Jewish majority is protected in its constitution. Israel is not democratic, and therefore has no right to exist in its current form in my opinion.

    Shepard:

    How much political voice are Jews given in Syria? How about Iran?....Egypt?......Saudi Arabia?.......Jordan?

  • Glander
    Glander

    Israel gave back the Gaza strip in an attempt at peace. Look what that got them. If Egypt, Syria and Jordan really wanted to help the Palestinians they could. But they prefer to have them agitating and focusing their hate on Israel.

    Israel give back the West Bank? "Not going to happen". Never

  • shepherd
    shepherd

    @drewcoul - at the moment none of those countries are democratic either. That does not make Israel right.

    And if you had read my words carefully you would note I was referring to fellow Israeli citizens who are also Arab. In a real democracy they would have an equal vote - but they don't. Israel calls itself a Jewish State, overriding the equal rights of all its Arab Israeli citizens. Jews should have no more rights than any other Israelis, just like in the USA - Latino and Black and White Americans can all vote for any candidate they want - there is no rule only a White man or a Christian or even only a man for that matter can be President, but in Israel there are such rules that favor Jews. I could never support a State where one cultural group has more rights than another, or one religion over another - I prefer democracy.

  • Glander
    Glander

    shepherd - The US is pretty unique in the world of multicultural societies. Everything you pointed out above about the state of Israel is nothing compared to Islamic theocracies. Why are they given a pass?

  • Curtains
    Curtains

    chariklo, I watched that program - very enlightening. Yes it is marvellous that we can get involved in political discussions and follow the intricacies of politics without a guilty conscience.

    excellent objective points shepherd. Objectivity is not easy to cultivate

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