Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.

by designs 82 Replies latest social current

  • misocup
    misocup

    Take a look at a map and see how much land Israel has compared to the surrounding Muslim nations. Israel is a tiny little area just trying to survive. The only way the Muslims will be happy is if Israel is destroyed, which is what many of the Islamic leaders publicly state they want.

    Does anyone really think that giving up the land to Palestine and recognizing them etc. will lead to peace? I don't.

    Recently Muslims protested in London carrying signs reading "Islam will rule all" ect. When London is completely overrun by Muslims will they start claiming the land for Palestine?

  • misocup
    misocup

    That pic Terra Incognita put up shows it. But that's a good thing. Again, please look at all the surrounding Muslim land. Why can't those Muslims be taken in by them? Why can't Muslim in Israel live side by side with Israeli's?

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Exactly, Miso.

    Israel has just that one little sliver of land, and the Palestinians want that.

    There's something else at work there.

    Syl

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    The author of your citation is hardly a good source you know. His organization disseminates antisemitic cartoons, has supported people like Arafat, and recently praised the antisemitic words caught on video that got Helen Thomas

    So...an ex-Republican Congressman isn't a good source? Why? Because he has a different viewpoint than you?

    Hhhmmmm...perhaps Botchtower...as a Congressman...he has had a butt-full of Israel... :) Perhaps he is really pissed-off about AIPAC controlling U.S. politics. :) Perhaps he's a little tired of our Israeli welfare policy? :)

    Regardless, he is a MUCH more credible resource than anyone YOU or anyone else has presented on this thread. : ) Give those Liberty boys a little respect O.K... apparently the Israeli airforce officers that REFUSED to fly the mission because THEY KNEW it was an American ship mean nothing to you either. So much for "mistakes of war."

  • botchtowersociety
  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Your point?

  • botchtowersociety
    botchtowersociety

    You've been shown to be either wrong or using very dubious sources to further straw man arguments on this thread Justitia. That's twice on one thread with your pants down. Are ad hominems and insults all you have left? Because at that point, there is no discussion. Just insults along with conspiracy theories equal to Bush did 911, Birtherism, and "they didn't kill OBL the other day."

    *yawn*

    Good nite

    And one for the road:

    ReportDate issuedConclusion
    C.I.A. reportJune 13, 1967No malice; attack a mistake
    U.S. Navy Court of InquiryJune 18, 1967Mistaken identity
    Report by Clark CliffordJuly 18, 1967No evidence ship was known to be American
    Senate Select Committee on Intelligence1979/1981No merit to claims attack was intentional
    National Security Agency1981Mistaken identity
    House Armed Services Committee1991/1992No support for claims attack was intentional

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Yes..yes..Botchtower...you are soooo correct. Dubious sources...on EBSCO scholarly academic sources...yes....poor stupid scholars...should listen to BOTCHTOWER...poor stupid Justitia...BOTCHTOWER learned a new word after leaving JWs...strawman...but applies it incorrectly :)

    Might I just say how much I truly enjoy NOT having to be around JW men...even the "ex" ones that really belonged there in the first place.

    Botchtower can't attack the good Congressman's information, so he seeks to denigrate him because his conclusions differ from what Botchtower needs to believe.

    nighty night sweetie....as I move on to soooo much more than you will ever have.... ;)

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Here's some more idiots for ya Bothtower.. THANK GOD we have YOU to listen to and not these incredibly educated and well-connected individuals... :) Were you an elder or something?

    Source:
    Washington Report on Middle East Affairs ; Mar2004, Vol. 23 Issue 2, p9-9, 2/3p

    Section: Special Report

    After State Department officials and historians assembled in Washington, DC, last week to discuss the 1967 war in the Middle East, I am compelled to speak out about one of U.S. history's most shocking cover-ups.

    On June 8, 1967 , Israel attacked our proud naval ship — the USS Liberty — killing 34 American servicemen and wounding 172. Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government.

    U.S. military rescue aircraft were recalled, not once, but twice, through direct intervention by the Johnson administration. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's cancellation of the Navy's attempt to rescue the Liberty, which I personally confirmed from the commanders of the aircraft carriers America and Saratoga, was the most disgraceful act I witnessed in my entire military career.

    To add insult to injury, Congress, to this day, has failed to hold formal hearings on Israel's attack on this American ship. No official investigation of Israel's attack has ever permitted the testimony of the surviving crew members.

    A 1967 investigation by the Navy, upon which all other reports are based, has now been fully discredited as a cover-up by its senior attorney [see box on following page]. Capt. Ward Boston, in a sworn affidavit, recently revealed that the court was ordered by the White House to cover up the incident and find that Israel's attack was "a case of mistaken identity. "

    Some distinguished colleagues and I formed an independent commission to investigate the attack on the USS Liberty. After an exhaustive review of previous reports, naval and other military records, including eyewitness testimony from survivors, we recently presented our findings on Capitol Hill. They include:

    • Israeli reconnaissance aircraft closely studied the Liberty during an eight-hour period prior to the attack, one flying within 200 feet of the ship. Weather reports confirm the day was clear with unlimited visibility. The Liberty was a clearly marked American ship in international waters, flying an American flag and carrying large U.S. Navy hull letters and numbers on its bow.

    Despite claims by Israeli intelligence that they confused the Liberty with a small Egyptian transport, the Liberty was conspicuously different from any vessel in the Egyptian navy. It was the most sophisticated intelligence ship in the world in 1967 . With its massive radio antennae, including a large satellite dish, it looked like a large lobster and was one of the most easily identifiable ships afloat.

    • Israel attempted to prevent the Liberty's radio operators from sending a call for help by jamming American emergency radio channels.
    • Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned lifeboats at close range that had been lowered to rescue the most seriously wounded.

    As a result, our commission concluded that:

    • There is compelling evidence that Israel's attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy an American ship and kill her entire crew.
    • In attacking the USS Liberty, Israel committed acts of murder against U.S. servicemen and an act of war against the United States.
    • The White House knowingly covered up the facts of this attack from the American people.
    • The truth continues to be concealed to the present day in what can only be termed a national disgrace.

    What was Israel's motive in launching this attack? Congress must address this question with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services.

    The men of the USS Liberty represented the United States. They were attacked for two hours, causing 70 percent American casualties, and the eventual loss of our best intelligence ship.

    These sailors and Marines were entitled to our best defense. We gave them no defense.

    Did our government put Israel's interests ahead of our own? If so, why? Does our government continue to subordinate American interests to Israeli interests? These are important questions that should be investigated by an independent, fully empowered commission of the American government.

    The American people deserve to know the truth about this attack. We must finally shed some light on one of the blackest pages in American naval history. It is a duty we owe not only to the brave men of the USS Liberty, but to every man and woman who is asked to wear the uniform of the United States.

    This article is reprinted with permission from the Jan. 11 Houston Chronicle.

    ~~~~~~~~

    By Thomas Moorer

    Admiral Thomas Moorer, now retired, was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 1970 to 1974. He is joined in the independent commission of inquiry by Gen. Ray Davis (recently deceased); Rear Adm. Merlin Staring, former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Ambassador James Akins.

    Source:
    Washington Report on Middle East Affairs ; Jan/Feb2004, Vol. 23 Issue 1, p75-75, 2/3p

    Section: Human Rights

    Israel Affairs ; Autumn/Winter2004, Vol. 10 Issue 1/2, p29-59, 31p

    This is a PDF and I am not going to bother to upload it. For those of you who are interested in accurate, authoritative information, you can pay for a membership in the online, SCHOLARLY database to access the information, OR go to your public library.

    A report released Oct. 22 on Capitol Hill by former officials from the highest level of the military and government revealed that Israel "committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States" when it deliberately attacked the USS Liberty and killed 34 American crewmembers in 1967 . (Findings of the Independent Commission of Inquiry are available on the Web at < http: //www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ussliberty.html >)

    In a sworn affidavit read at the press conference, Capt. Ward Boston, chief attorney to the original 1967 Navy Court of Inquiry, stated that then-President Lyndon Johnson and then-Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered the Court of Inquiry to cover up the attack by presenting it as a mistake.

    "For more than 30 years I have remained silent on the topic of the USS Liberty," Boston stated. "I am a military man and when orders come in from the secretary of defense and president of the United States, I follow them.

    "However, recent attempts to rewrite history compel me to share the truth," he explained. "In particular, the recent publication of Jay Cristol's book, The Liberty Incident, twists the facts and misrepresents the views of those of us who investigated the attack. . . Contrary to the misinformation presented by Cristol and others, it is important for the American people to know that it is clear that Israel is responsible for deliberately attacking an American ship and murdering American sailors. "

    Commissioners asked for a new and honest naval inquiry into the 1967 attack, as well as an investigation as to why the U.S. government covered up the Israeli attack.

    "The men of the USS Liberty were representing the U.S.," said Admiral Thomas Moorer, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. "They were attacked for over two hours by Israeli air force and navy units, with 70 percent American casualties and the eventual loss of our best intelligence ship.

    "These sailors and marines were entitled to our best defense," Moorer insisted. "We gave them no defense. The findings of this commission are irrefutable. Every other attack on a ship in our history has been investigated by our Congress except this one.

    "Nor has Congress ever investigated the recall by the White House of U.S. Navy aircraft sent to rescue the Liberty while the ship was still under attack," he added. "The White House cancellation of the Navy's attempt to rescue the Liberty is the most disgraceful thing I have witnessed in my entire military career.

    "Why would our government put Israel's interests ahead of our own? " the admiral asked. "Does it continue to do so? This is an important issue that should be investigated by an independent, fully empowered commission of the American government.

    "Our own Independent Commission of Inquiry findings have grave implications for our national security and for the American people," Moorer said. "In order to confront this problem, the American people and our elected officers will need to overcome their fear of the pro- Israel lobby in the United States. "

    Immediately following the Israeli attack, the ship's survivors were threatened with "court martial, imprisonment or worse" if they did not remain silent. However, with the passage of time, many have stepped forward to say that the attack was undeniably deliberate and that justice must be served. Despite numerous attempts to be heard, no previous inquiry has taken public testimony from surviving crewmembers.

    — Courtesy If Americans Knew

  • Terra Incognita
    Terra Incognita

    Misocup:

    "Again, please look at all the surrounding Muslim land. Why can't those Muslims be taken in by them? Why can't Muslim in Israel live side by side with Israeli's?"

    "Israel is a tiny little area just trying to survive. The only way the Muslims will be happy is if Israel is destroyed, which is what many of the Islamic leaders publicly state they want."

    First of all, Palestine was a substantially Muslim territory before WWII. The Israelis started a land grab that diminished the ability of Palestinians to function as a society.

    Second, Israel is partially responsible for much of the grief it is currently receiving. If they had treated Palestinians right throughout the past few decades they would have taken away the excuse for beligerence that some Muslim nations have.

    Third, you are grossly generalizing by when you said "Muslims will be happy is if Israel is destroyed, . . .". There are over a billion Muslims, mostly in Africa, and they are not monolithic in their opinions on a wide variety of issues.

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