Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood. (page 2)

EntirelyPossible

Every time Israel cedes land, it gets rockets. Snowbird has a PM.

Every time Israel breaths/eat lunch/goes to bed/goes poop they get rockets. Correlation != causation.

Israel got that land after beating back an invasion. It was invaded by multiple nations in a surprise attack. Without the land Israel is militarily indefensible. It will be a sitting duck, ripe for the taking.

Yesterday, Obama said that Palestinian lands should be contiguous. How pray tell, is that possible without making Israel noncontiguous?

snowbird

Received and replied, BTS.

Let it be noted that my observations are based solely on the Holy Scriptures.

Anyone can read these and draw their own conclusions.

Thanks.

Syl

Justitia Themis

I wrote a paper on this about two years ago. I don't have all my research with me since I am living in a different city attending law school. However, I had saved to this laptop a timeline I created to keep the facts straight on what actually led up to the "creation" of Israel. It might provide valuable insight as to why the Palestinians and Arabs in general are so pissed off about this issue. If you read it, you will notice that Israel introduced terrorism to the region and used it to get the Brits. to leave. BTW, since this was for personal research, I didn't spell check or anything.

1914 Palestine has 66,000 Jews and 570,000 Arabs, lived together in relative peace;both Jews and Arabs consider themselves “Palestenian.”

1916 Sykes-Picot agreement (spheres of influence) give Britain influence in Palestine (French

agree.

1916 Brits give conflicting messages to the Arabs. McMahon tells Hashemite Sharif Hussein

that British support Arab independence, but Brits also sign Balfour Declaration to “view

with favour the estabslishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.”

1918 Allied/Arab forces caputured Damascus; Brits give Hussein’s son, Faisal, the regime.

1919-

1922 Britain secures mandates over Palestine/Iraq, establish Transjordan, make Abdallah (Faisal’s brother) emir. Brits made Faisal (France deposed him from Damascus) king of Iraq.

1922 Britain affirms right of Jews to live in Palestine, but limit Jewish immigration, pledge not to support Jewish majority rule or statehood.

1930 Britain signs mutual defense treaty with Iraq.

1932- Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud establishes Saud’s Arabia.

1933- US Zionist have only 65,000 members/ moderate leader, Rabbi Wise, favors polite lobbying and philantrhropy.

Roosevelt/Palestine up to 1945. Strong public lobbying. Personal presidential advisors increasingly Jewish and promoting Zionism; State Dept./Pentagon vigorously warn of danger to ME peace of Jewish state/may push Arabs to Soviets/Communism. Roosevelt mostly stands-up to Zionists even if it harmed his domestic political position.

1938- Britain discusses repudiating Balfour, Christian evangelical belief that return of Jews to homeland fulfills Bible prophecy influences Congress; 62 reps/9 senators advise Roosevelt to protest.

1939 Arab revolt, because of massive Jewish immigration. Numbers now 66,000 (1920), 170,000 (1929), 400,000 (1936=31% pop.)

1939- tells Zionist Organization of America that “deeply concerned” about White Paper, but can’t do much because of international situation

1939 White Paper, Britain senses need of Arab support in WW2, limits Jewish immigration to 75,000 over 5 years, prohibits Jews from purchasing land outside settlements. Palestenians to gain gradual control of admin. Offices, statehood with 10 years. (wartime expediency sets stage to inflame conflict.) However, Britain bans political activity…how can they establish a functioning government if political activity is banned?

1940 prior to 1940, US has little interest in ME, accepts/defers to Anglo-French hegemony.

1941 Frustrated with Brits, exiled al-Husayni offers to collaborate with Nazis to expel Brits.

1941- Roosevelt rejects Zionist request that he pressure Churchill to create a 50,000 Jewish Brigade within the British Army.

1941- Roosevelt rejects Zionist pressure to endorse Jewish state in Palestine.

6/1941Roosevelt tells Jewish leaders to trust Britain to defend Palestinian Jews.

1942- Militants Rabbi Silver and Ben-Gurion get resolution at Zionist convention demanding immediate termination of Brit. Mandate, establishment of Jewish state in Palestine. Silver founds American Zionist Emergency Council to lobby aggressively lobby Congress.

1943- Jewish leaders press Britain for pledge of postwar statehood; Brits/US jointly declare British presence in Palestine critical to war; no discussion until war over.

1943- Roosevelt delcars Saudi critical to US national interests, provides military/economic aid, statehood. Saud reacts to growing US Zionist movement. Roosevelt promises to consult Arab leaders before changing any US policy regarding Palestine.****

6/43- Roosevelt gets intense pressure from Zionists; Weizmann, through Treasury Secretary Morganthau and Special Counsel Rosenman promote welfare of European Jews. Morganthau says ‘Arabs must be told Jews have right to Palestine.’

1944- US intelligence officers discover Soviet agents in Cairo to spread communism. Office of Strategic Services concerned that “a vocal and influential segment of US public opinion” [Jews] might stimulate Anglo-US tensions, undermine US interests in Arab states, allow Soviet Union to enter the region.” Arab leaders staunchly anti-Soviet, so US professes non-Zionism to Arab leaders.

1944- ELECTION eve. Roosevelt caves slightly to Zionist for reelection. Dems and Repub. Both support unlimited Jewish immigration. Zionist tell Roosevelt that they have Dewey who will say Britain should revoke White Paper. To get Zionist vote w/out angering Churchill, Roosevelt calls for land surveys to facilitate Jewish settlement.

1944- Roosevelt gets reelected; resists Zionist. Zionist pressure leads to numerous Congressmen, joint bipartisan resolution endorsing Jewish statehood in Palestine; ask Roosevelt to endores. Saudi, Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Yemen strongly protest. Pentagon warns Roosevelt/Congress that passage will damage military interest. Speaker Sam Rayburn kills it, prophetically warns “illustrates what happens if delicate international situations get into party politics.” ****

2/45- Arabs getting angry at Zionist involvement in US politics. Roosevelt in personal meeting with Saud says, “No decision altering the basic situation of Palestine should be reached without full consultation with both Arabs and Jews.” ***2 nd time promised.

Truman (Evangelical Christian)/Palestine after 1945. Truman busy with the War, little to study/understand ME, policy lacks presidential leadership. Cold War means US security experts greatly concerned with Arab interests/critical to Soviet containment. Truman’s personal advisers start protesting the “anti-Zionist” stance of Pentagon/State Dept. and poison water between president and bureaucracy. Britain experience increasing trouble controlling violence in region.

1944- Jewish terrorists assassinate Lord Moyne. militant groups becoming more aggressive. Haganah (Jewish Resistance Organization)=50,000 soldiers. Irgun=Menachem Begin, Lohama=Stern Gang.

1945- Haganah (Ben-Guiron) angry that Brits won’t increase immigration/promote Jewish statehood sabotage British railroad/oil installations.

1945- Because of US critical interests in ME, NEA’s Loy Henderson advises US must become more active in ME. Viewed Britain and its oil concessions as a rival for commercial interests. Back off position because of Cold War.

1945- Labour party elected in Britain; determine to dismantle colonial structure in ME. Have trouble stopping smuggling of Jews into Palestine, 70,000 from May 45- May 48. Also, Palestinian Jews becoming more militant.

1945- Truman tells Brit. PM Attlee that 100,000 Jewish immigrants s/b allowed into Palestine. British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin states that only reason Truman wanted the Jews in Palestine is so that they wouldn’t come to the US, that 100,000 immigrants would “set aflame the whole ME”, and if Truman wanted them to do that, then send 4 divisions of US soldiers to control the area. J You go boy!!! Truman backs off but, on 9/29 publicly endorses it to help defeat Jewish Repulican in NY mayor’s race. After election, backs off and tells Zionists they need to furnish him with 500,000 soldiers to fight the Arabs, otherwise, must “negotiate” a while.

11-45 Brits tired of Palestine and US, creates joint US-Anglo AACOI=Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry into the Problems of European Jewry and Palestine.

4-46 AACOI recommends allowing 100,000 Jewish immigrants…surprise…abolish restrictions on Jewish land purchase, establish international trustee to govern Palestine, but advised against both Jewish and Palestinian statehood. Truman publicly endores, asks Brits. To revoke White Paper.

5-46 Arab Summit-declares AACOA lack legal authority, asserts conspiracy between committee and Zionists, warns that mass immigration will provoke war in Palestine.

7-46 AACOI leaders try to implement plan, advance Morrison-Grady plan to divide Palestine in 4 districts (Palestinian, Jewish, Jerusalem, Negev.). Palestinian/Jewish would self-govern civil issues, British commission would control defense, police, trade. Zionists like, Arabs don’t. issue get referred to UN. UN recommends partition.

8-46 Ben-Guiron gains control of Jewish Agency over moderate Chaim Weizmann, determing to mess with Truman in view of Nov. elections.

10-46 predictable split in US officials opinions. WH advisor Niles (son of Russian Jewish immigrants/Zionist) says should support/State Dept. says no. Trume makes Yom Kippur Statement eve of holiday that US government supports. Doesn’t help. Dewey and Republicans win control of Congress in Novemeber elections. Britain and Arab states go ballistic. Saudi’s accuse Truman of supporting “Zionist aggression” Officials @ Arabian-American Oil Company consider re-chartering as a British corp. to avoid anti-US backlash. Brits’ complain US destabilizing the region.

1946- Brits respond to Jewish terrorism, Operation Agatha, Brit. Soldiers sweep Jewish strongholds, arrest militants, sieze weapons. One month later, Irgun bombs King David hotel in Jerusalem, center of British military/political authority, kill 92. Brits. Declare marshall law. Brits. Start considering withdrawal, don’t think Palestine has much value.

1946- King Saud hires Americans to engineer a ten-year infrastructure modernization plan.

1946- Pentagon officials fear Zionism a threat to US security, predict establishment of Jewish state will throw ME into war.

1947- CIA reports ME oil reserves critical to Marshall Plan, ME “essential to…security…US.” US investors own 23.75% of Iraq’s oil industry.

1947 US Zionist membership now over 1 mil. White House receives 135,000 letters demanding creation of Jewish state.

2-47 Brit. Refers situation to UN.

4-47 US establishes UNSCOP (UN Special Committee on Palestine.

6-47 Truman irritated with Zionist’s trying to impact UNSCOP, urged citizens to avoid prejudicing committee. US consul in Jersusalem, Robert Macatee remarks that UNSCOP has been “feted ad nauseum b the Jewish Community.” Arab leaders take reverse strategy and refuse to cooperate. Syria, Saudi, Yemen and the Arab League say biased, Palestinians boycott.

8-47 UNSCOP report advises termination of British mandate, independence of Palestine. 8 members endorse partition, with independence after a two-year period.

11-47 With significant US support, UN Gen. Assemb. Passes partition resolution. US/Arab relations immediately tank. British say going to cut/run, not help with enforcing partition, will remove troops by August 1948. Nearly all State Dept. officials opposed partition, NEA supports international trusteeship. CIA predicts will spawn violence, instability, xenophobia, and communist activity. When Joint Chiefs say partition no good, Joseph Bendersky calls the military “anti-Semitic.” Nile’s (Zionist) urges Hilldring be replaced. State Dept. tries to appease Arabs by allocating the Negev, but Truman says no after Weizmann (Zioninst) pressures him. What Truman DIDN’T know is that US citizens (Zionists) and members of Congress (caving to Zionists) claiming to speak for the US had pressured, bribed, and threatened to stop US aid to UN members to get them to vote in favor. Egypt revoks Pentagon’s overfly privilege and use of Farouk Field. Rest of ME blows up in mob violence.

11-47 Truman imposes arms embargo to Palestine and neighboring Arab states. Jewish Agency officials, White House Zionists press him to allow Jews to arm. When he doesn’t, Zionists smuggle airplanes, explosives, and ammo, while Britain secretly arms the Arab’s over low-key US State Dept. protests. State Dept. renews protests over partition b/c of Zionist meddling in UN vote and Arab reaction. Again as Truman to recommend UN establish trusteeship. Truman approves**; see March 5

12-47 British announce they are out of Palestine May 48.

2-48 UN imposes Truman’s arms embargo.

2-48- Exhuasted by Zionist politicking, Truman denies Weizmann’s audience request. Longtime friend and buss. Partner of Truman’s, Eddie Jacobson, intervenes. Truman tells him he is committed to partition, and no one tells the State Dept. that Truman has changed his mind.**Austin announces new anti-partition stance to UN. Clifford accuses State Dept. of deliberately misstating Truman’s position (which they did not) and Zionists accuse him of double-crossing them.

3-48- Truman clarifies stance; says supports trusteeship as temporary measure, UN Security Council votes to reconsider partition. Zionist groups organize public rallies to pressure Truman. Zionists mount smear campaign against NEA Director Loy Henderson, advocate of trusteeship, Truman replaces him with Hilldring. Jewish Agency and World Jewish Congress intensly lobby Congress.

3-48 Palestinian forces threaten Jewish settlements, Haganah secures area, opens a corridor to Jewish Jersusalem. However, Palestenians and Arab League do not declare a Palestinian state. ??

4-48 UN GA circulate trusteeship charter. No country wants to enforce it. JCS predict will need up to 200,00 soldiers…sound familiar???

4-48- Irgun and Stern Gang forces attach Arab village, Dier Yasin, kill 250, half are women/children.

4-48- UN Security Council passes cease-fire resolution on April 17, and establish Truce Commission. Jewish Agency says will accept truce only with statehood, Arab League demands partition revocation and moratorium on Jewish immigration. April 26, Arab leaders decide to occupy Palestine on termination of mandate.

5-48 - British mandate expires, National Council of Jewish Communities declares Israeli independence, form provisional government and Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). Israel established. Now a nation, Israel struggles with diplomacy. They are used to devious, back-channel diplomacy, struggle to use formal channels, and realize that they have weakend their relationship with US. Within 11 mins. Truman approves official US recognition, but withhold de jure recognition. Arabs strongly react. US officials afraid they will run to Soviets, relieved when Soviet Union extends full, de jure recognition witin days. Soviets motivated by affinity for Israelis as fellow Nazi victims, and awareness that Israel will allow them to function politically, WHILE THE ARAB STATES CONSISTENTLY REPRESSED COMMUNISM.

5-48 Arab-Israeli War.

1950- State Dept. links ME trade with Atlantic Charter’s vision of global capitalists free trade. “prospterity of Western World closely link with fate of Near Eastern countries.”

1950- Truman tells Israeli Ambassador Eban that the “striped-pants boys in the State Department are against my policy of supporting Israel” and would “soon find out who’s the President.” Calls them effeminate, snobbish, disloyal “tea hounds.” ???

War misc. after demise of imperialism, Arab states tend to compete for regional power, so don’t play well together, can’t coordinate military tactics, get beaten by Israel. Truman focused on reelection and Soviet Blockade in Berlin.

5-48 Bernadotte of Swedon appointed as mediator.

8-48 115 US soldiers assigned as observers to “Truce Commission.” “Firmness dilemma starts developing, US/Israel argue re: arms embargo. US observers have “unanimous disgust at Jewish actions.” Blame IDF for 90% of truce violations.

9-48 Israeli terrorist murder Bernadotte. His final framework was Arabs acquiesce to existence of Israel, Jordan annex portions of Palestine not designated to Israel, both have to approve border alterations…billed as “territorial compromise” Internatinal regime to govern Jerusalem, Israel to repatriate Palistenians. Arabs refuse to negotiate, mad because no mention of Arab state

10-48 State Dept. tells Israelis that Egypts occupation of Negev gives them some standing; inadvertently motivates Ben-Gurion to seize northern Negev.

11-48 Presidential election, both parties agree not to campaign on foreign policy issues. Israeli’s push both parties to denounce Bernadette’s plan, which became popular after his murder…cause bi-partisan consensus to collapse. Both candidates issue statements that Israel’s borders shouldn’t be changed. Causes “influence dilemma” everyone is irritated with meddling Jews.

12-48 UN rejects Bernadotte plan, establishes Palestine Conciliation Commission (PCC), us, French, turks,

1-50 Brits and Israel tussle over Egypt, when in December Israel invades; Brits have mutual support treaty, must defend Egypt. Israeli’s shoot down five British planes.

botchtowersociety

Every time Israel breaths/eat lunch/goes to bed/goes poop they get rockets. Correlation != causation.

When Israel pulled out of Gaza, it got rockets from Gaza.

The only time land for peace has worked for Israel, to my knowledge, is when it returned the Sinai to Egypt. With that regime, which adhered to the accord, collapsed to be supplanted by the Muslim Brotherhood, it is now doubtful in my mind that the arrangement will continue.

EntirelyPossible

When Israel pulled out of Gaza, it got rockets from Gaza.

You said "every time". Citing a single instance is not relevant to your original statement.

botchtowersociety

Now you are splitting hairs. It is relevant. Israel returned territory captured from Lebanon in the north as well from the 1982 war. Now they get rockets from there as well. Hezbollah.

EntirelyPossible

Now you are splitting hairs.

You made the claim. support it back off it. Don't blame me for what you said.

botchtowersociety

Well then why don't you tell me of an example that shows what I have said is wrong? When has Israel ceded land to Palestinians and had real peace in return? When Israel gives up control of a piece land, the residents are more able to attack it. This has been the rule. There has been peace between governments, but never between peoples (even Egypt, which is the #1 manufacturer of antisemitic propaganda in the world), and that is what matters in the long run.

EntirelyPossible

Well then why don't you tell me of an example that shows what I have said is wrong?

Because I didn't make the claim. It's up to you to prove it, not me.

Should Israel cede Land to Palestine at the pre 1967 markers and recognize Palestinian Statehood.

Share this