Hi, Coco!!
Your comments,
"Not to hijack, but Ziddy: You spoke of the Muslim veiwpoint toward women:
I'm reading alternative history on the origins of civilization and religion. One source states that part of the Judeo-Christian modus operandi was to wipe out all traces of the sacred feminine so prevalent in earlier religions ...
Thoughts, anyone? ..."
Uhm, that's something I've considered deeply, after I began to learn that the earliest forms of religion were "Goddess" oriented...
I've got two theories about that...
Early in humanity's history, the human race discovered that they could obtain land/goods/manpower [slaves...] more easily by attacking and conquering their neighbors instead of working for such things on their [tribal] lonesome...
That's when the 'power dynamics' appeared to have shifted between men and women... Men were/are more "death-oriented", [95% of murders and nearly all wars have been committed by men...] and therefore more effective at being warriors - especially when, in an ancient world's context, the women were needed to produce more future warriors for the tribe's continued existence...
Another possibility is that, as the Sahara dried up, the dynamics in the hunter/gatherer groups shifted, due to the inability of the gatherers to find enough food in a desert environment. Studies of hunter/gatherer societies in existence within the last hundred years showed that the gatherers were the real "bread-winners", since they obtained at least 50% and up to 75-80% of the [plant and some small animal proteins...] foodstuffs used by the tribe. The hunters [generally] obtained the red-meat foodstuffs, which provided the tribal group with its major sources of animal protein. Most of the foodstuffs obtained by the gatherers was of plant origin - though the females also had the ability to obtain smaller game such as birds and fish; however, when the land dried up and became desert, the tribes had to shift towards a more meat-based diet - which tended to remove the power from the gatherers and shift it in favor of the meat-obtaining hunters...
This same dynamic probably existed amongst Ice-age hunter groups; depending on the time, location, and resources, the females' "power" may have been undercut or almost eliminated by their inability to provide additional, plant-matter food for the tribal groups...
Women can also be "hunters", obviously, but that division between male hunter and female gatherer seems to be deeply ingrained into the human psyche...
Another interesting point that I've observed, is that present-day "Goddess" worship seems to tend to be MALE-dominated, oddly enough... Looking at the Catholic Church's deification of the Virgin Mother Mary as a form of "Goddess" worship, we see that though the "feminine ideal" is deified, the ACTUAL WOMEN in "Her" image are kept in a subservient position of lesser status...
As to the "Goddess" Kali in India, [and I need to do more research on this, btw...] "Her" worship seems to be generally divided along gender lines. Kali has at least TWO aspects - a death-dealing one, in which she dances a dread demon to death and wears the skulls and bloody hands of her vanquished foes around her neck; and a life-oriented aspect, in which she brings life to the world in the springtime, is in charge of all forms of birth, and is viewed as the original source of life...
Needless to say, the men in India tend to worship the death-oriented Kali, sometimes with bloody sacrifices and violence [I think that the "Thuggees" were/are followers of the Black Kali...], whereas the women followers of Kali tend to worship the life-oriented, "white" version of the Goddess, with gifts of fruit and flowers...
When one looks at the statues of goddesses from Egypt, especially those of the Goddess Isis, one sees that she is inevitably, invariably suckling a MALE child... The same goes for the Virgin Mother Mary; I would guess that ANYTIME one sees statuary of a female goddess suckling a MALE child, one is looking at a male-dominated version of "Goddess" worship... [But just to let you know, one of the books I recently checked out from the library entitled "Language of the Goddess", indicated that, EARLY in Goddess-worship, the child suckled by the various versions of "Goddess" was FEMALE...]
But the preponderance of later "Goddesses" suckling a male child again indicates that the skewed value system[s] of humanity - that men are viewed as "More Valuable" than women because they're bgger, stronger, MORE VIOLENT - has probably been inherent in humanity from the very beginnings of the various species of hominids...
That value system was needed, at the time. Bigger, stronger, more violent were characteristics needed, to kill the threats to the tribe; more able to obtain meat when other food sources were scarce or non-existent. However, to retain this value system today endangers the future existence of the human race...
I just hope the species wakes up and realizes that, before it's too late...
O-kay, sorry 'bout dragging this thread WAAAY off-topic... But Coco, you got some feedback!!
Zid
