If Armageddon came tomorrow, would Jehovah kill a billion children?

by just n from bethel 168 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  brotherdan

  the Chrisitian message remains...children are better off dead.

  That is not the Christian message. Matthew 19:14 gives a direct message to children: " Jesus said, "Don't stop children from coming to me! Children like these are part of the kingdom of God."

  If you don't understand the Bible, then you won't understand the difference between the OT and the NT. They are completely different parts of God's plan.

  Although this may seem appalling to consider it is God's right to bring judgment on whom He desires, when He desires, through whom He desires, in the manner that He desires. Man simply does not have all of the knowledge required to judge God on this issue. The amazing thing is that God was as long suffering with sinful people as He was.

  It is also true that the nations God commanded Israel to destroy (i.e. Amorite, Canaanites, Midianites) had enticed Israel to sin. God desired to put an end to Idolatry. What better way to eliminate Idolatry than to completely destroy the entire Nation responsible?
  
  Women and children were part of God's judgment in order to completely destroy the influence and Idolatry of the foreign nation.
  
  Although Israel returned to Idolatry time and time again, the Nations judged by God were responsible for their own sin.
  
  It matters not how or when a person dies. It matters what a person's relationship to God is. If children are "innocent" they will be judged by God as such even if they die as part of Gods judgment against the nation in which they live.

  Romans 11:22
  "Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off."
• 

  brotherdan

  A Christian's entire hope rests on his or her DEATH.

  And where is your hope? Actually a Christians hope is not entirely in death. If the accepted interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 is correct, the body of Christ that is alive when He comes will not suffer death in the normal sense.
  
  "Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have not hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."
• 

  NewChapter

  It matters not how or when a person dies. It matters what a person's relationship to God is

  A couple of thoughts. By ending their lives, the god also ended any possibility that these people would come to an understanding of his message, and develop a good relationship with the god. No one preached to the canaanites before they were slaughtered. They weren't given a chance at all. And so, it is reasonable to conclude, that they died while their relationship with the god was not very good. It is amazing that god's perfect judgement could be perfectly applied to an entire region, not allowing for any within that region to be saved.

  Women and children were part of God's judgment in order to completely destroy the influence and Idolatry of the foreign nation.

  And so, because the message of love that the god preached could not stand on its own, women and children were slaughtered so as not to endanger the incredibly fragile faith of the chosen people. Remove the people, remove the influence, Israel is too stupid and weak to withstand another point of view.

  If you don't understand the Bible, then you won't understand the difference between the OT and the NT.

  I understand that Jesus quoted extensively from the OT. I understand that he was in complete agreement with the OT god. I understand that the only scriptures available to Jesus were the OT, and he was versed enough in them to have deep discussions with religious leaders when he was only 12. Sure, Jesus said let the children come to him, but he also praised his father for slaughtering children. If a person's eternal desitiny rests on him developing a relationship with the god, then how is it justice to cut that opportunity short?
• 

  miseryloveselders

  I heard a visiting speaker deliver a talk where he likened Armageddon to good destruction. He stated that not all destruction is bad, often destruction is necessary. In this case, Jehovah's destruction of this system of things is a good thing. I thought about it later on my drive home from the meeting as it was a nice day. I had to get some shopping in, and on my way to the grocery store I hit a few red lights. While sitting in my car, I saw young couples smiling and holding hands, enjoying each other's company. I looked into my rear view mirror, and saw an old couple in their car going whereever. I saw some women with baby strollers. I parked my car in the lot, and started walking towards the automatic sliding doors at the grocery store. On my way, I saw families coming in and coming out. I saw a father holding his little daughter in his arms. When I stepped into the store, I almost got ran over by a disabled elderly woman in one of those motorized carts. It made me chuckle to myself.

  Days like that make me reflect upon what the WT has been teaching and what I currently believe. You know Abraham pleaded with God over Sodom and how it would be unconscionable for God to destroy it with their being righteous people within it, regardless if they were the minority. Jonah got the Ninevites to repent, and Jehovah backed off on destroying their city for 40 years if my memory serves me correct. I'm thinking that if God fearing people, even JWs, find themselves questioning the sensibleness of a global Armageddon instigated by heavenly forces, if they question it, then I don't think its unreasonable to believe that the WT's view of Armageddon needs reexamined. Especially since we've been awaiting this global destruction for the past 2000 years.
• 

  PSacramento

  Questioning God, arguing with God, bargaining with God, trying to get God to change his mind has a rich tradition in the bible, nothing is set in stone with God.
• 

  brotherdan

  It is amazing that god's perfect judgement could be perfectly applied to an entire region, not allowing for any within that region to be saved.

  Sort of sobering for us today, huh? That may just show that there was no one that was willing to be saved in that nation. Like I said, we don't have enough information to judge our perfect God. Why try? God knows the hearts of all. He knows what would happen if the entire nation was not destroyed. And you know, some of the Israellites had the same thought and did not devote everything to destruction. Do you know what happened? They fell to idolatry and false worship again and again.

  Maybe God's way was the best way after all!
• 

  brotherdan

  And so, because the message of love that the god preached could not stand on its own, women and children were slaughtered so as

  not to endanger the incredibly fragile faith of the chosen people.

  It was not the message of love that was fragile, but the faith of the people. And how sad that was. It really is a tragedy.And it is a tragedy that continues today in Judaism. They still reject Christ.

  Also, the enemies of God WERE always warned before they were attacked. There was always an opportunity for them to come to faith in the trut God. There are examples of this in the OT. Rahab was a part of a nation that was scheduled to be destroyed. She had faith and was saved. So too the Gibeonites knew that God was going to bring their nation to destruction. So they came to Joshua and attached themselves to him to be saved.

  There was always a way out. But it REQUIRED them coming to God for salvation. Same for today.
• 

  Lore

  Here would be a good end times sign: Everyone becomes infertile all of a sudden. Armageddon would then come 20 years later. . .

  Strange that god didn't think of that one when the guys asked him what the signs would be.
• 

  NewChapter

  Sort of sobering for us today, huh?

  No, it is not sobering, it is enlightening. It makes me understand how people feel justified in judging that others are unfit for life. In hating and killing in god's name, cuz afterall, entire regions can be damned. It makes me exceedingly joyful that I no longer believe in a hateful god that would base salvation on the luck of the draw as to where one is born.

  And you know, some of the Israellites had the same thought and did not devote everything to destruction. Do you know what happened? They fell to

  idolatry and false worship again and again.

  Maybe God's way was the best way after all

  Then again, maybe his way is deeply and permanently flawed. If he existed, I suppose he would have been able to choose a people with a bit more back bone than that. No, this god you speak of is all too human and full of mistakes. Even his chosen people couldn't follow the rules. He couldn't even strengthen them against idolatry. He demands that people come to love him, but them kills them before they get the chance. sobering? No. Hateful. Yes. Christianity is just another hate-filled religion.

  But I'm sure Christians can be joyful knowing that everyone else gets to burn, or gets destroyed, or whatever the take. As long as they are assured of their reward, all is well. Congnitive dissonance lives on, and life is good.
• 

  whereami

  That is not the Christian message. Matthew 19:14 gives a direct message to children: "Jesus said, "Don't stop children from coming to me! Children like these are part of the kingdom of God."

  If you don't understand the Bible, then you won't understand the difference between the OT and the NT. They are completely different parts of God's plan.

  Although this may seem appalling to consider it is God's right to bring judgment on whom He desires, when He desires, through whom He desires, in the manner that He desires. Man simply does not have all of the knowledge required to judge God on this issue. The amazing thing is that God was as long suffering with sinful people as He was.

  It is also true that the nations God commanded Israel to destroy (i.e. Amorite, Canaanites, Midianites) had enticed Israel to sin. God desired to put an end to Idolatry. What better way to eliminate Idolatry than to completely destroy the entire Nation responsible?

  Women and children were part of God's judgment in order to completely destroy the influence and Idolatry of the foreign nation.

  Although Israel returned to Idolatry time and time again, the Nations judged by God were responsible for their own sin.

  It matters not how or when a person dies. It matters what a person's relationship to God is. If children are "innocent" they will be judged by God as such even if they die as part of Gods judgment against the nation in which they live.

  Romans 11:22 "Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off."

  This is why I don't get into it with believers. If you can't see how discusting this line of reasoning is then there really isn't anything anyone can say. It's so sad to see that in 2011 we still cling to this type of backwards thinking. You will defend your cruel murdering god to the end because if you don't, you'll end up like the people you feel deserve to be destroyed. So sad.

  Religion/faith is a true virus of the mind.