If Armageddon came tomorrow, would Jehovah kill a billion children? (page 7)

just n from bethel

I'm with you whereami, in not getting into it with those who fight over whose version of imaginary killer unicorns are the prettiest.

I really didn't think the new born-agains (from JWs to Christian fundies) would come out on this thread. But here they are rationalizing away why the big guy kills babies and rapes women. From 'oh it's different in the OT than the NT' to 'you're taking it out of context' etc. etc. Then finally comes the whole rehashed JW argument: in clearly spoken language: "Only God is the judge and he is just and loving", but simultaneously under their breath: "but yeah, he's gonna kill a lot of people that don't utter the magic words, I believe Jesus is my savior".

I get that a lot of folks have a desire to continue on with their inherited cultural presupposositions, I'm just yet amazed that the version is still basically the same no matter what Judeo, Christian, or other contemporary monotheistic belief system one adheres to: believe like me or God will kill you - and your children.

And new Christian fundies have the gall to wonder why so many former JWs [or name your brand of former Xians] don't take to their new but same version of Christianity.

Here's another statistic: almost 20% of the world who are old enough to read, cannot. That is as of 2010. Go back 50 or 100+ years and it's a lot more. Yet God's way to communicate Christ to the entire world so as to "save" them - is through the Bible? - And reading the 1000+ page book alone is not enough because it is so easily misunderstood (Great job God.) -Instead you have to get the "spirit" to understand it??? Not to mention accessibility to it in the first place.

brotherdan

If there were other righteous ones in the city, God would have spared them from his judgement. Otherwise they would be in heaven and have been living in paradise now for thousands of years. What a horrible prospect!

sabastious

Instead of thinking, "God is horrible for his judgements" why not think, "These people must have been pretty bad to deserve such harsh punishment." Do you think they were actually good people? Like misery said earlier, in Sodom and Gomorrah (2 large cities) God could not find even 5 righteous people that deserved to be saved. These were horrible wicked nations.

Your perception: God only horribly kills horrible people

^ This cannot be demonstrated and has to be taken in without question and in faith. This position assumes total and complete benevolence from the executioner.

My perception: God is killing people with unnecessary brutality

^ This can be demonstated by reading the descriptions in the Bible of how God chose to kill his criminals.

It seems apparent that God is indeed a monster or he did not do what the Bible says he did.

-Sab

brotherdan

Wow just n from bethel... what a lot of misspoken rubbish.

Yet God's way to communicate Christ to the entire world so as to "save" them - is through the Bible?

God does not save people through the Bible. He saves those that have faith in Christ (1John 5:1)

their new but same version of Christianity

This is not new. It is plain Christianity. If you take the Bible to be the word of God which people have for thousands of years, then you can see that what is being said here is true according to the Bible. You don't have to like it or believe it. But it is from the Bible.

But here they are rationalizing away why the big guy kills babies and rapes women.

Obviously you haven't been reading this thread closely or read the Bible. God never raped women nor sanctioned the rape of women. There were women that were raped and it was recorded in the Bible. That does n ot mena that God approved of it.

If you meant for this thread to NOT be meant for believers, then you should have specified. But if you want to get into a discussion about the Bible, then I will contribute. If you don't like the God of the Bible, that is your prerogative.

brotherdan

he did not do what the Bible says he did.

Show me an example of what you don't like that the Bible says "God did this". We've been speaking in generalities. Give me a specific.

nicolaou

But we cannot stand in judgement and condemnation of God.

Speak for yourself.

just n from bethel

Otherwise they would be in heaven and have been living in paradise now for thousands of years

So Dan, not to get into this too much with you. I know you get pretty emotional about this stuff - so don't take offense and leave for good again. But what you just said is saying that 'God wanted another angel so that's why he took someone's child'. I know you're trying to rationalize the obvious conflicting data of the Bible's version of God the tyrant, with Jesus the Children lover; but just like the JWs can't really do it, neither can fundie Xianty.

I know some here have found a way to be ok with believing in God and Christ while at the same time thinking that not all stories in the Bible, particularly ones of destruction and annihilation by God's hand, are factual true events - or that if they are, God sure wasn't involved. Maybe talking to some of them would help ease your cognitive dissonance. I think PSac has a pretty good handle on that kind of viewpoint.

I wish I could help more. It's not that I'm not open to believing in the supernatural and religous viewpoints, (I'm not an athiest, agnostic, deist, thiest or any other ism or classified belief system). I just don't care. As a JW, I've lived my life telling everybody else that they were wrong. I've never had a day go by when religious discussions and thoughts weren't brought up. I'm bored with it all. One thing I know is that numbers and math don't lie. That's why the global flood never happened. That's why the preaching work of JWs, and Christianity in general, and the Bible distribution have failed. The numbers just aren't there for Xianty (at least fundamental literal believers in the Bible, like JWs). And as the numbers don't lie, then indeed God's supposed plan of action for unbelievers in the bible, speaks for itself as to the kind of God he is.

watson

When I became inactive, I stopped participating in the feud between the Almighty and one of his many rebelious sons. The God of the Bible is too much like men.

sabastious

Show me an example of what you don't like that the Bible says "God did this". We've been speaking in generalities. Give me a specific.

There is a reason why I am speaking in generalities. The specifics are not as important to me anymore. I know the stories well and I know how I feel about them. I know how they made me feel when I was a kid. I try to read the Bible, I really do. It just seems like I can't get but 10 minutes into it without getting pissed off.

The Bible was written in a different time with a different moral code than I live my life by. For me, it's not enough to be able "look at the stories from a new angle" because no matter how much evidence supports the more fluffy reasons the other, more sinister, possibilities are always just as viable an explanation.

I find ways to avoid the Bible while you wish to be a teacher of it. That's a pretty interesting difference between us.

-Sab

NewChapter

But here they are rationalizing away why the big guy kills babies and rapes women.

Obviously you haven't been reading this thread closely or read the Bible. God never raped women nor sanctioned the rape of women. There were women that were raped and it was recorded in the Bible. That does n ot mena that God approved of it.

you missed a part---the part about killing babies. He did do that. He didn't find even ONE righteous baby in all of sodom and gemorrah cuz as you said, god would have spared them. I'm not sure what your point is in saying that I and others don't know the bible. I studied it deeply for most of my life, before JW (with born-agains) and after. Not one thing that I said contradicts what is in the bible. But for some reason, you think I don't know what is written in the book. What do you base this on? Simply that I have concluded something differently than you have? If that is the case, then right back at ya. You came to the wrong conclusions, therefore, you do not know your bible as well as I know your bible.

If we are created in god's image, and killing children is abhorrent to us, then why shouldn't we judge god to be a monster? We are in his image afterall. Your reasoning is deeply flawed, as is the god of the bible, but I understand why you cannot see that. I was there once too. In the end, I think most religious people are happy that they will be saved, and their concern for the rest of us in minimal. I for one could never be happy in heaven if my family were burning in hell. I couldn't be happy in paradise if I watched my family destroyed in armegeddon. I just can't get that jubilant over wholesale brutal killing. But then that is probably why I make a terrible Christian. I care too much.

In the end, you can dance in the dust of my burning body, or slide around in my spilt entrails (pick your belief) as you celebrate your salvation. I'm going down with the ones I love.

If Armageddon came tomorrow, would Jehovah kill a billion children?

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