Discussion involving my Dad & other long timers - Mood is definately different

by Doubting Bro 98 Replies latest jw friends

  • leavingwt

    The number of JWs is increasing, but relatively few are reaching out, relatively few are as "gung-ho" about obedience as JWs in years past, relatively few are willing to be a "self-sacrificing" as the literature implores them to be.

    What is the implication? What can we conclude from this? Being a JW in the 60's was different than being a JW in the 70's, 80's or 90's. It's different, today. They are a publishing corporation, evolving to survive.

    Anyone with a suicide card in his or her wallet, or anyone willing to shun a family member scores an A+ on my "Self-Sacrificing" scorecard.

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Truth and Justice:

    "Here I am against the prophets of false dreams," is the utterance of Jehovah, who relate them and cause my people to wonder about because of their falsehoods and because of their boasting." "But I myself did not send them or command them. So they will by no means benefit this people," is the utterance of Jehovah.

    Would you or another poster kindly provide the reference for Jeremiah's declaration. My concordance is buried ...



  • life is to short
    life is to short

    I had time to read only your first post but to add my thoughts to it. My husband is older then I am and is in his early 60's. He gave half of is 20' all of his 30's and almost all of his 40's to the full time work. He was an elder the whole time. The other elders gave him all the crazy ones in the congregation and he felt sorry for them so took them on because the other elders just would't which I as his wife had to deal with them also. I have been yelled at cussed out you name it, I remember feeding the speaker one time and my husband always wanted to invited the whole book study group including the crazies so this crazy sister was at our home, we had the afternoon meeting and so it was getting dark and I turned on a light in my own living room. She hissed at me loudly to turn IT OFF! Really this is my home! Oh the things I went through members hearing voices out in service, etc

    So here my husband gets all the dirty work from the other elders and then a child molester moves into the hall and he stands up against the body because the other elders feel this child molester should have feel run of the hall and he did't so he is deleted.

    He did not save for old age, he has nothing, I will work forever and he knows that.

    Yet he hangs on just like your family. I do not know. He said the other day that he wished he had done something for our future but it is to late now.


  • Vidiot

    flipper - "...the age group of 20's through 40's , even into their 50's are REALLY starting to think with their own minds more so these days. One can only hope that more JW's will exit ..."

    The more who leave, the more will find it easier to leave.

    It's called a "cascade effect".

  • hotspur
    My family on both sides are working on raising generation #5 in this bootleg religion.

    No.... you're wrong.... it's just the one generation because they have overlaps!

    I agree, the mood is definitley changing but I very much doubt, as a whole, if the house of cards will collapse..... sadly.

  • Franklin Massey
    Franklin Massey

    Doubting Bro, great thread. This site needs more threads like this so that lurkers and doubters can see what is going on in the hearts and minds of other JWs. There is an elephant in the room and and everyone is scared to talk about it. So they do some private searching online and find experiences like these. Very powerful.

    Boyzone posted, My parents are both elderly and have regular discussions with another long-time brother and sister over coffee once a week. The gist of these discussions is that the Society are starting to be way off when it comes to shunning, education and blood and need to learn some humility. They have been reading the bible together and can see how far these doctrines have deviated from scripture

    This is good to hear.

  • Quendi

    This has been a fascinating thread for me to follow and I have enjoyed reading the various thoughts that have been shared. Many posters have focused on what they hope will be a total collapse of the Watchtower Society (WTS). I can understand that, and I hope I will even see it. But I am not counting on it. Let me explain my reasoning.

    The Protestant Reformation began in 1517. Prior to Luther's nailing his 95 Theses on the Wittenburgh church door, I'm sure he had hoped and prayed that his concerns would be given a fair and thorough hearing by the Roman Catholic Church and needed changes would be made. Those hopes were not realized. Eventually he concluded that he could not stay with the Church and left, taking many people with him. Of course, Luther was not the first reformer the Church confronted. However, he had a powerful weapon which his predecessors had lacked: the printing press. That invention spread his thinking far and wide and incited rebellion against the Church across all of Europe. For more than 130 years after Luther published his manifesto, Europe fought savage religious wars and it seemed that the Catholic Church would surely crash into ruin.

    We all know what happened. The Church survived. Despite internal dissension, despite political strife, despite the overwhelming power of the printing press, the Church emerged from the Reformation and went on to wider influence in the New World. I mention all of this as a caution to some of our more eager friends here who long for an end to the WTS. Yes, the WTS is facing slowing growth, internal dissension, a serious "brain drain", loss of interest in its message, and the power of the Internet which is rapidly exposing its many weaknesses. And yes, there have been other millennial movements like the WTS that have faded away, even their names being forgotten. So it would seem that the chances of the organization going on for a long time are dim.

    But we need to remember that this organization has outlasted many brutal attempts to suppress and destroy it. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union both failed to do so. Cuba's Fidel Castro finally capitulated and granted official recognition to the WTS. China is looking the other way. The WTS has extraordinary resilience when it comes to adversity. And when J.F. Rutherford became its president, it is said that some three-quarters of those professing to be Bible Students left the organization. Today, it is stronger than ever whereas most of those splinter movements that did arise have passed away. So despite the current turmoil, the WTS may well find itself a going concern decades from now. I think it will reap what it has sown, but that may not mean it will disappear forever.

    In the meantime, those of us who have left can rejoice in our liberty. We should also look for opportunities to assist our friends and family who are still trapped in the WTS to leave if that is their wish. If the organization does experience a sudden and catastrophic collapse, then we will need to help the survivors any way we can. That is certainly my determination.

  • hamsterbait

    Sir 82-

    Your point about immigrants and third world converts has importance for the future of the Borg.

    Converts in America in the 19th C. came mostly from ignorant semi literate working class people.(as today)

    Africa at present has very little connectivity to the internet. Once the third world is online too the same trend as in the West will start.

    They will sit in their mud hut, having contributed what little extra money they had, and see on their windup computer (yes - they have them, like the radios) the GB living in what to THEM is unimaginable luxury, off of African contributions.

    Add to this cultural differences on how things should be done. Japan apparently is already disagreeing over something - but I want more details on this, it was mentioned in another thread.


  • Pistoff
    Something I've noticed is that none of the dubs are reading the litteratrash like they used to.

    Not hard to see why; the tone is harsh, and the doctrine lacks imagination or warmth.

    It is really just awful to read; all guilt mongering and harangue.

  • slimboyfat
    Remember how paranoid Old Man Jaracz was about the Vast Apostate Army?

    No, what was that about?

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