I was walking my dog and JWs told me about some good news!

by moshe 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • moshe

    Well, it was a nice morning to take my dog for a walk and about a mile from my home I met a car load of JWs working the condos. Two brothers hit on me before they went back to their car. Apparently they hadn't been able to talk to anyone this morning -10:30AM, so they were eager to find a stooge who would listen to them.

    I immediately decided I wouldn't talk about their doctrine, so I jumped on the flood of Noah after they got the intros out of the way. They did tell me they were JWs from the git-go.

    It was sad really to find out how little they knew about the science that debunks the flood of Noah. When I asked them where the flood waters came from, the older brother just pointed up to the sky. I explained to him that our atmosphere has a weight of 14.7 psi and what would happen to humans , if they had the weight of all that water pressing on us? They just shrugged their shoulders, so I explained how it would crush us. Blank looks. Then I went on to discuss, the arctic ice core record going back over 100,000 years, the 12,000 year old Arctic lake sediment core yearly layers and asked them to explain how this could be, if the flood of Noah washed it all away less than 5000 years ago? More shrugging of the shoulders and finally I talked about the French cave prehistoric paintings of extinct ice age mammals- why didn't the flood wash all that away- and what about Oetzi the iceman mummy on top of an Alps mountain frozen in ice 5300 years ago- why didn't the flood of Noah wash his body away and melt the ice?

    These just just listened to me for a good 20 minutes and offered no hard rebuttal to what I explained to them.

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    Moshe...I ALWAYS read your posts about your dealings with JWs, at least when I actually visit the site. Good job. :)

  • ProdigalSon

    The Bible is beyond question, above reproach, and takes precedence over any and all logic, reasoning, facts, and scientific data. After all, it's the "Word of God", in spite of its contradictions, errors, interpolations, redactions, atrocities, and outright lies.

    You can't reason with anyone who worships a book.

    But of course you know all this Moshe...I'm just venting as usual.

  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    I haven't heard any of those arguments before but I havent been out very long. Totally brilliant. Where can I found out more stuff like that?

  • aSphereisnotaCircle

    Moshe, your the type of call that I hated getting out in service, you could so easily rip us to shreds and we had to limp back to our car group and lick our wounds and be reassured by the others that we are right and you are wrong and your gonna find out at armegeddon.

    But your also the type of call that I would never forget. In my 30 some years of knocking on doors, there is a handful of people that I wont forget. And I wish I could find them again and thank them for taking the time to call BS, when they saw BS.

    It took decades...but they got me to think.

    Thank you Moshe!

  • designs

    moshe- Be sure and count your time

  • mouthy

    Pity you didnt tell them about this site. You have to replace some one to talk to

    I hope you gave them your address !!!! NO I knew you didnt

    When they come to Simons site,They will learn more about the falseness of the WT

  • wasblind

    What I wouldn't give to have been there to see the look on their faces

    your too much Moshe, keep up the good work I was brought up to believe

    in the Bible over science, so I would have been as dumb founded as them

  • Finally-Free
    I explained to him that our atmosphere has a weight of 14.7 psi and what would happen to humans , if they had the weight of all that water pressing on us?

    This is easy to explain. The water came from nearby Venus, so the increased pressure wasn't actually on the earth. Jehovah assigned myriads of angels to form a bucket brigade from Venus to the earth to dump the water here. Hope this helps.


  • moshe

    F-F, that is a brilliant solution!

    They tried to shift over to creation and a creator- I said watch this- I bent over and picked one blade of grass- I asked them what are the odds of all the blades of grass in the world, that I would select just this one blade? The younger brother said- trillions of trillions- so I told him that maybe the odds in favor of evolution aren't impossible either

    I did mention 1975 and they gave me the standard answer- a few brothers were over zealous about looking to a date.

    I haven't heard any of those arguments before but I havent been out very long.

    Over time, you do pick up these facts. A professor who lead the Greenland GRIP project told me about the Arctic sediment cores, when I called and talked to him about his ice core research back in 1994. Yes, these scientists will often explain their work to someone who calls and has interest in their work. The caves in France

    here is part of a discussion I had a couple years ago on another forum, about the Cave paintings- it is an arguement that catches all pro-Flood people by surprise, -


    Hello Moshe. Yes, those cave paintings were done by modern humans descended from Noah and his family after the flood. This article puts cavemen into context.

    And yes, these animals were descended from animals that came off Noah's Ark in the Middle East after the Flood. This article deals with some of the logistics of Noah's Ark.

    We are not "reinventing" the facts. We agree with all that is observed, such as the existence of the cave paintings, the remains of the animals, the evidence for ice cover. We are reinterpreting the facts. And note that the dates you see quoted are not facts. All dates are chosen to fit within the long-age secular worldview. Did you read the article The fatal flaw in radioactive dating?

    You mentioned "religious needs" but do not seem to realize that the secular worldview is a "religious" worldview. It starts with beliefs about the nature of God, what He does, the nature of man, etc. So your statement, "they stop at nothing to reinvent the facts to fit their religious needs" could be equally applied to the secular worldview. We need to acknowledge that these are two competing worldviews. See Evolution & creation, science & religion, facts & bias.

    I'm encouraged because your questions show that you are applying the biblical worldview. Most people think it is ridiculous when they first encounter it but as you investigate you will see that the worldview makes sense.


    My reply-

    --Your caveman story has nothing to to with these French cave paintings- you are acting like a Jehovah's Witness, now.
    At least you see that the cave paintings would have been washed away by Noah's flood, so they would to have been done after the flood. Now you just have to use miracles to explain how extinct animals were in those paintings. Lets, see- A regular rhino came off the Ark, then in a few years when they the migrated to the brand new ice age regions where food was scare and life was harsh, they grew long furry coats almost overnight and became a separate sub-species, too. Cave bears and Cave lions? No problemo- same thing for them, I guess. See how easy it is to explain away unpleasant paintings of wholly mammoths and other extinct ice-age animals? They can't be 20,000 years old, no way- Because Jesus is God and truthful,too, because he told us so, almost 2000 years ago.
    Ice cores 100,000 years old-Nah-sediment cores 20,000 years old- nah- all, flawed science. But, hey, I love those scientists that created those miracle drugs who keep us alive, just not the ones who contradict the Bible.


    I gave up- science is always flawed when the outcome is predetermined and you can reinterpret the facts to suit your needs.

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