Your advice is requested

by mrsjones5 35 Replies latest jw experiences

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  AGuest

  Such good comments (peace to you all!)... and I particularly like/agree with dear LWT (peace to you!). My TRUE answer, however, would be different from most: he's 15 and, therefore, still a minor and, therefore, unless he's being abused (which does not really include being forced to learn a trade) or in some kind of danger, he is at his parents' mercy, right now. Right NOW... NO ONE should tell him to do anything other than obey his parents.

  Ms. Josie, my dear, dear one... I know how this concerns and frustrates you (I would be, too!), but I would tell YOU... out of the greatest wish for love and peace... to mind yours, my dear sister. 'Cause Lord help the person trying to tell MY minor child what is "best" for him/her while he/she resides in MY house. And I can't imagine too many here disagreeing with that.

  Now, if one wants to say something like, "You know, if, when you turn 18... or get emancipated... you still have questions... I would be more than happy to sit and have a talk and tell you what I know/think. Until then, though, MY advice is for you to suck it up and listen to/obey your parents. Because, right now, they are the ones who're providing for you and your needs. Your roof, clothes, food, health, etc., all depend on them, for now. So, you OWE it to them to do what they say, so long as you're not being harmed. And learning a trade, while it might seem hard now, will help you in the end, even if you choose to do something different later. Right now, it puts money in YOUR pocket." That his job may be illegal is his, his parents', and/or his employer's problem... and responsibility... and no one else's.

  Dear one, there is such a thing as interfering where we shouldn't. Again, unless a minor is being abused/in real danger (and possible indoctrination into a cult we hate doesn't qualify)... we really must butt out.

  I hope this helps and mean NO offense... and again, wish you all peace!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
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  mrsjones5

  MY advice is for you to suck it up and listen to/obey your parents. Because, right now, they are the ones who're providing for you and your needs. Your roof, clothes, food, health, etc., all depend on them, for now. So, you OWE it to them to do what they say, so long as you're not being harmed.

  Thank you Shelby. That's what I have been saying to the boy. Since he is still a minor he still is under his parents' jurisdiction and I would never tell him to disobey his parents. I have kids of my own as you well know and I wouldn't appreciate anyone coming in and usurping me.

  That being said this young man is coming to me and saying what he's been saying because he thinks and knows I am safe. He was directed to me by my son because the boy was telling my son what was going on in his head about the wt and the jws but my son couldn't relate because he's not being raised in the bOrg. But my son knows that I was raised in the bOrg and he suggested that the boy speak to me.

  He knows I'm safe because I'm not a jw, I don't go to his hall, I have limited contact with my parents. I am someone out of the main scope of his jw world but I understand what he's going through because I was there as a teen. When I was a teen I had a person who was outside of the jw world, who respected my parents, who didin't try to usurp my parents authority over me, and who more importantly did not repeat or tattle on me when I said or expressed an idea that was unjwlike. She was safe and was a very wise person who was there when I needed her to be. That's all I'm trying to do.

  This boy is worried about the pressure to become something he doesn't want to be. He doesn't have to come out and say it right now that he doesn't want to be a ms or an elder. What he can do is what's been suggested on this topic and try the tactic of avoiding it for a while by saying that he doesn't feel ready or mature enough. I haven't made the suggest to him yet but I plan to.

  I respect your points Shelby but I'm not going to make him stop talking to me.
• 

  jwfacts

  Tell him there is no rush to reach out. Jesus did not get baptised or start his ministry until he was 30. There is a reason the word is elder (older man).
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  OnTheWayOut

  I so disagree with Shelby. It's a cult. Training a boy according to a dangerous mind-control cult is mental anguish and although it doesn't fit the category of legal abuse, it is nonetheless abuse. Sure, we cannot go out and seek minors out and give them anti-JW advice, but when one is seeking us out, I see nothing wrong with being a bit forthcoming. If a teen were being physically abused and sought help, you wouldn't send him back to the wolves. The only difference here is the legality of the term "abuse" so you have to tread lightly.

  You cannot be overbearing and tell the boy to rebel but you can certainly help him more than "...when you turn 18... or get emancipated... you still have questions... I would be more than happy to sit and have a talk..."

  Imagine him going away from that advice, getting baptized at 17 and coming back a few years later with "I sure wish I waited." Although that's not your fault/responsibility, you know you can have a small influence in making it a better outcome. I wish someone told me what to investigate when I was ready to become a JW.
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  AGuest

  I respect your points Shelby but I'm not going to make him stop talking to me.

  I understand, dear Miz Josie (the greatest of love and peace to you!)... and you are entirely within your right to do as you choose. But you are a parent and you believe you know what's best for your child(ren), right? And so long as you're providing for them... and not abusing them (and indoctrinating them into religion is not considered abuse, unfortunately), no one should interfere. Otherwise, you are infringing on THEIR right... as parents. I realize that a lot of us believe we can "help"... but I don't think "helping" a child go against the wishes of his/her parent is the right way to go. But... I only stated what I would advise you. Because sometimes "what goes around... comes around"... and you may find yourself in the same position with your own child(ren) some day. I did not mean to chastise but to simply remind you, as a parent, how we parents very often feel.

  I so disagree with Shelby.

  Well, of course you do, Jer... but you don't seem to have a lot of others agreeing with you on this one. And... you don't have kids. I don't mean that to demean you on any level but only to say that perhaps you don't have my perspective because of that.

  The only difference here is the legality of the term "abuse" so you have to tread lightly.

  And "legality" is a worthy word... because indoctrination one's children into a religion... even if others believe it to be a cult... is not necessarily a crime. However, interfering with a parent's RIGHTS... can get one sued.

  But it's more than that, Jer, so let me ask you this, if I may: say, you are a parent... and your 15-year-old kid doesn't want to learn a trade or go to college... but actually wants to join JWs and pioneer... even aspires to "go to Bethel"... because he has a JW friend and thinks their lifestyle is "better" than his. He's been speaking with his friends mom and she's been telling all the "wonders" of JW life, particularly that she "came out of the world" so has "been there, done that" and the WTBTS was the BEST thing that ever happened to her... and will be to HIM, too? Would you TRULY tell him, "You know, son, I don't have a right to tell you what to do and if you want to join JWs and go to Bethel, you do that and I will support your decision?" Better yet, would you really let him keep going over that particular friend's house?

  Miz Josie, only one thought comes to my mind: while all things may be lawful, not all things are advantageous. Perhaps you can keep helping YOUR son see what they are truly about and allow HIM to help his friend. Because that is what FRIENDS (and not necessarily friends' mamas)... are for. But, I am NOT trying to make you feel bad or that you're doing something "wrong." I am only trying to share a little "parental" wisdom here. I hope you see that and... as always, peace to you and your household!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
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  mrsjones5

  Darling Shelby, you know I love you and your points are valid fron a certian perspective, but I guess where I'm coming from is the point of view of a born-in. On the inside if I had any doubts I knew not to voice them to my parents or anyone else associated with the wt. To do so would be trouble, big trouble. This boy knows this only too well and I hazzard to guess that's why he's talking to me. When I first met him he would talk about how bad the world is and I never responded in agreement. I think he was kinda testing me to see what I would say. When he started saying that he really didn't like being a jw I was kinda taken aback because I don't talk about the jws around the boy. I'm not the one hanging out with him, my son is. So he's saying things to me about how he feels being in the bOrg. We don't have long drawn out conversations, he'll say something to me, I'll respond and that's it.

  When I was a kid I had no one to talk to about any of this, at least no one who would really know what I was talking about. I would never overstep and tell this boy to go against his parents nor would I ever denigrade his parents in a conversation with him. I'm not trying to take this kid about from his parents, I don't want or need another kid. But I cannot in good conscience make this boy stop talking to me about his feelings and qualms about the wt/jws. I just can't.
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  yknot

  Just a thought from the other side of my brain which I rarely listen too....

  If his parents would try to indoctrinate your kids on the sly without respecting your rights as a parent of not wanting them to become JWs........pass on Franz, Hassan and of course my favorites....old publications links at http://www.archive.org/details/WatchTowerBibleandTractSocietyofPennsylvaniaWatchTowerpubs_0 and www.wtarchive.org/deposit/

  Of course the 'respectful' thing to do is simply tell him that while a minor at home he has to show respect to his parents but at the same time needs to pay special attention to his grades so that he can obtain a scholarship, partime job in construction and work his way through college while living in a dorm.....that most JWkids leave and he is normal in his frustrations....... that yes things aren't all the WTS say they are......
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  aquagirl

  "Any way that you can help him to delay baptism would be great also." That is wonderful advice...Its nice that this young man can speak to you.I wish that I had had a "Mrs Jones"when i was in the borg.
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  mrsjones5

  Of course the 'respectful' thing to do is simply tell him that while a minor at home he has to show respect to his parents

  Which I have said and stressed. My son is also his math tutor. I'm not indoctrinating anyone. The boy is voicing his opinion and I'm responding. I haven't told him to not go to the hall. He did say he didn't like to go to the hall and I said that right now because of your age and being respectful to your parents you really don't have a choice but soon you will have a choice. How is that indoctrinating?

  If I was trying to indoctrinate the boy I would point him to this site. I haven't done that because that would be way out of line. If I'm here when he comes through the front door I immediately close my laptop. He's not mature enough to handle this site and his being here would only be trouble.
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  mrsjones5

  I wish that I had had a "Mrs Jones"when i was in the borg.

  Me too. I would have left home alot sooner, made better choices with my young life and I wouldn't have thought I was crazy for not believing the lie.