Is Forgiveness Overrated?

by leavingwt 195 Replies latest jw friends

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Terry...

    you asked: "If mankind is wretched, depraved, corrupt and deserving of death--ON WHAT POSSIBLE BASIS can their low standard of thought and conduct be rewarded as though the offense were nothing?"...

    -In the eyes of God, because we turned from His "recommendation" to follow our own course to death, we are deserving of death...NOT because we are wretched, depraved and corrupt.

    -However living with and according to the law of death (apart from renewed communion with God) mankind is increasingly more wretched, depraved and corrupt.

    Therefore Jesus can ask the Father to forgive "them" for they know not what they do(wretched, depraved and corrupt) and be the "conduit" for that forgiveness by renewing believers to life through Himself. (if the "offense" were nothing then it wouldn't have to be paid for at such a high price, mortal life for mortal life)

    love michelle

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    Forgiveness says: "I'm going to treat you as though you are worthy of the highest possible reward.

    For some or most folks perhaps. To me it means that I've moved on from whatever wrong that was done to me, I'm not going to dwell on it to ad nauseum and make myself sick about it while the offender has gone on their happy way, and I will not make myself available for said offender to do it again.

    Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to make your backside available to be kicked again and again. It's an attitude that's a work in process for me.
  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Good morning LWT..

    Regardless of how many times you may forgive someone..Some will remain repeat offenders in you life..

    Thats because they are not interested in being forgiven..

    They want to wear you down and have you accept their behaviour..

    You either get them out of your life..

    Or..

    Continue to suffer thier abuse..

    "Ya..I`m an AssHole"..

    "But"..

    "My Friends like me!"..

    ....................... ...OUTLAW

  • Terry
    Terry

    On a scale from Awfully Bad..................................clear over to............................................Wonderfully good

    What gives things their value?

    Isn't it the reality of their impact on life itself? A thing IS what it is, after all.

    We can't bargain with poison or a bullet to the brain, can we? Wishing away the cause of death doesn't prevent death.

    Being mushy about our descripton of WRONG doesn't change the wrong itself.

    Wrong is wrong because it hurts, distorts, effaces, corrupts and destroys what is good.

    If you simply REDEFINE wrong the results of the destruction do not change!

    What is done has been done.

    A failure to confront either the destruction of the good or the innocent or its cause is the beginning of moral insanity.

    THINK ABOUT IT!

    The Catholic Church handled child molestation by hearing the confession of accused priests and forgiving them--then, moving them to a new location where the FORGIVEN party perpetrated NEW HARM.

    Ask yourself what it is in the nature of that forgiveness that was practical?

    Shouldn't any action taken toward a HARM be of a practical nature in restoring and preventing future harm?

    FORGIVENESS is wrong-headed because it is impractical. Evil remains evil. The harmed remain harmed. Only the perpetrator benfits.

    The harmed party WHO FORGIVES may simply be experiencing the desire to STOP FACING the reality of the harm and succumb to societal pressure to be nice and christian because "God expects" us to do the forgiveness thing.

    The SANCTION OF THE VICTIM is the leading cause of evil in this world! Who has more moral standing to end it than the vicitim?

    Who receives more pressure to "let it go and move on" than the victim?

    The wrong-headedness of forgiveness is part of the insanity of religious detachment from reality and mystical "values" replacing healthy moral values (justice).

    Forgiveness of a destructive wrong is an illusory denial of the value of what was lost and an abandonment of justice in addressing the restoration by restitution/punishment.

    Imagine a Missionary in a village of cannibals forgiving one by one the eating of his wife and children and you'll get my point.

    (Who is next?)

  • undercover
    undercover

    Regardless of how many times you may forgive someone..Some will remain repeat offenders in you life..

    Thats because they are not interested in being forgiven..

    They want to wear you down and have you accept their behaviour..

    You either get them out of your life..

    Or..

    Continue to suffer thier abuse..

    your formatting is so fucked up, it fucked up my formatting... but I forgive you...

  • journey-on
    journey-on
    Forgiveness of a destructive wrong is an illusory denial of the value of what was lost and an abandonment of justice in addressing the restoration by restitution/punishment.

    The symbol for "Justice" has long been the image of The Scales of Balance. I agree with Terry to a large extent. However, you can forgive without forgetting the need for justice. Justice (true justice) is a balance between mercy and severity. The trick is knowing when to use which and just how much.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    your formatting is so fucked up, it fucked up my formatting... but I forgive you... .....Undercover

    Good morning UC..

    LOL!!..

    ....................... ...OUTLAW

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    Terry you remind me of Odo from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

    -Sab

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    The Catholic Church handled child molestation by hearing the confession of accused priests and forgiving them--then, moving them to a new location where the FORGIVEN party perpetrated NEW HARM.
    Ask yourself what it is in the nature of that forgiveness that was practical?

    Their forgiveness was irrelevant because it was not THEIR PLACE to forgive NOR did they have the RIGHT to forgive.

    The ROMAN Catholic church ( there is more than one type of catholic church) made a huge mistake and continues to do so today, it is not theirpalce to forgive ANYONE for sins commited to another.

    It is however their place to get those people treatment and make sure that, to th ebest of their ability, it never happens again.

    Forgivness does NOT mean nor has it EVER meant that the wrongdoer gest away with it or doesn't pay for his/her crime.

    I repeat, it has NOTHING to do with that at all.

    Forgiveness is part of the healing process for the victim AND the victimizer and itis a crucial part, one that if it is missing will only prolong the suffering AND lead to repeat offending.

    Forgiveness breaks the circle of wrongdoing BUT it has to be between the victim and perpatrator and outside of God and Jesus, NO ONE can forgive anothers sins.

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    Is forgiveness Overrated? Personaly, I don't think forgiveness is either overrated or underrated.

    Like religion, faith, love and hate, it is often subjective. Just one more of humankind's peculiarities.

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